Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11
stuck lifter, m117, engine runs worse after warmup: Oxygen Sensor?

Hi
Have a stuck lifter in a 86 560 SL. The car had been sitting for a while before the lifter problem so , befor opening the head up I did an oil/filter change and added some lifter additive and I have been driving it to see if the lifter will un stick.
The engine runs allmost perfectly for the first 15 min, (except for the lifter noise and tremble) and then acts doggy, feels likes it's missing (no back fire) .

Question:is the OXY sensor kicking in after warmup and adding to the problem?

Thanks a lot guys,
Great reading here

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-31-2010, 05:09 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane,Qld.Australia
Posts: 2,062
Stuck lifters aren't a problem . Worn Cam bearings are .
The engine oil pump feeds the cams oil from a gallery at the rear of the block.
The oil runs to the cam bearings in the heads and then to the tappet gallery.
The last place to get oil is the spray tube.
Pull both cam covers ,look at the condition of the cam lobes. Any that look scored or have blue burn marks mean the cams and bearing stands are shot.
This is caused by lack of maintenance.
I have two scrap engines here ,both taken from cars that were in nice condition but both suffered from poor maintenance in the engine. One had regular oil changes but hadn't had the filter changed in years. The filter had come to pieces and bits had blocked the cams oil galleries. The bottom end is still OK ( only 90 thou on the clock) . The second grabbed a cam,broke the valves on both heads wiping out the whole engine. The rockers were floating around inside the cam covers when I pulled them off.

This situation gets worse as the engine warms up as the lifters no longer get enough oil to keep them pumped up and they collapse .The valves don't open properly,the engine rattles a lot and there is no power.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-31-2010, 07:24 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Thanks
OK , I knew it was the last cylnder near the firewall on the passanger side: just had a look ; nothing blue , all looks clean . In terms of score marks on the lobes ; all seem to have some sort lines but none more than others.
Records show proper service.

Can I tell anything from the plugs? Holding the plugwire close to the plug does show a spark....???????
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-31-2010, 09:06 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane,Qld.Australia
Posts: 2,062
If the lobes have marks,it's not a good sign. The lobes should be smooth and shiney. If the plug leads are original ,plus the cap and rotor, it's high time they were changed. Don't try shorting a plug because the ignition produces 20,000 Volts and it will hurt! plus you can damage the EZL module ($$$$) . thats why that yellow sticker is on the aircleaner.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-31-2010, 10:48 AM
david s poole
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: dallas
Posts: 1,822
those oil tubes are fitted into the cam bearings with plastic fittings.after a while they petrify and oil comes out at the plastic fittings instead of going down the planned path.before you do anything drastic buy two sets of oil tube kits,make sure you remove the broken pcs of the old ones,and fit them to the oil tubes.now i think you will find the noise has gone.
__________________
David S Poole
European Performance
Dallas, TX
4696880422

"Fortune favors the prepared mind"
1987 Mercedes Benz 420SEL
1988 Mercedes Benz 300TE (With new evaporator)
2000 Mercedes Benz C280
http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/A...1159.thumb.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-31-2010, 10:52 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Tkanks for the responce: I opened the other side , all lobs seem to be in the same condition: Seems to be oiling well

Took Photo:Hope the links work

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52650204@N08/4846568488/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52650204@N08/4846568384/




Attached Thumbnails
stuck lifter, m117, engine runs worse after warmup: Oxygen Sensor?-1sertyxrth.jpg   stuck lifter, m117, engine runs worse after warmup: Oxygen Sensor?-2sertyxrth.jpg  

Last edited by whunter; 06-23-2011 at 03:41 AM. Reason: attached pictures
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-31-2010, 11:28 AM
david s poole
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: dallas
Posts: 1,822
you are missing the point.those plastic fittings on the oil tubes are leaking oil when the engine is running.they cost all of $10 for both sides.when new they are brown not black.anytime the valve covers come off they should be replaced.
__________________
David S Poole
European Performance
Dallas, TX
4696880422

"Fortune favors the prepared mind"
1987 Mercedes Benz 420SEL
1988 Mercedes Benz 300TE (With new evaporator)
2000 Mercedes Benz C280
http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/A...1159.thumb.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-31-2010, 12:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11
David, Just seeing your post now , Willdo re the plastic fittings, thanks:
While I am sure I need another lifter I am still finding it odd that the acts very doggy after 15 minutes.....as if it is missing in one cylnder.....still wondering if a sensor is adding to the problem.
The closes explanation so far is the lack of oil to charge the problem lifter.

Not sure if I will try to fix this my self , This engine looks more complex than a SB Chevy from the 60s that I an used to.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-31-2010, 08:07 PM
280EZRider's Avatar
No Dumping
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Medford, OR
Posts: 1,464
I agree with you. Your cam lobes don't look bad and replacing the plastic fittings on the oil feed lines is a great idea. But I'm confused with your usage of "Lifter." MBZ engines don't have lifters; an overhead cam iliminates the need - cam to rocker to valve stem.
__________________

Don't Chrome them; polish them
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-31-2010, 09:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane,Qld.Australia
Posts: 2,062
Sorry man but your cams lobes are worn. In the second pic the left hand lobe has the classic signs of no oil. Now that you have the covers off,turn the engine so that a cam lobe is away from the rocker. See if the rockers can wriggled by grabbing them .
Any that can be moved are your loose tappets. If you can push any of the tappets down wards with a hammer they are worn.

If it is the right rear,you have worn cam bearings and no amount of swapping spray rails and denial will fix it because the tappets wont be getting sufficient oil pressure .
I do these engines on a daily basis ,I'm not guessing here. the 560 should be smooth powerful and dead quiet when running.
A blocked up sensor wont affect running in the manner you described. A blocked cat might so get the exhaust pressure tested. If the engine has been running with a blocked cat (the car is 24 years old ..) the oil will have been diluted causing more wear problems stemming from an over rich condition.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-01-2010, 06:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Hi 280EZrider

Interesting the "lifter" at PeachParts is listed as a "ball stud"

Fastlane: Ball Stud Original Equipment - Hydraulic
http://catalog.peachparts.com/item.wws?sku=W0133-1626905

Last edited by whunter; 06-23-2011 at 03:45 AM. Reason: repair link
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:09 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11
NO 3
the hydro thingy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52650204@N08/4848945637/
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-01-2010, 03:44 PM
david s poole
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: dallas
Posts: 1,822
the ball stud is actually a hydo-compensator but lifter to most people because it is hydraulic.
__________________
David S Poole
European Performance
Dallas, TX
4696880422

"Fortune favors the prepared mind"
1987 Mercedes Benz 420SEL
1988 Mercedes Benz 300TE (With new evaporator)
2000 Mercedes Benz C280
http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/A...1159.thumb.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-02-2010, 08:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Manassas, va
Posts: 228
Solution

I have 16 good lifters. I know this for fact as they came off a silent 560SEL engine.

If you want to take the time to swop them with the suspect ones..I'll sell them to you cheap. You'll need 4 if your doing one bank on both sides..

According to the diagnostics, ... this should solve your problem.

Advise

4HQ1@MSN.COM

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page