Coolant Flush Notes -- De-Oiling Surprises

EricSilver · #1 09-10-2010, 12:01 AM

I am almost done with a long overdue coolant flush. I did the de-oil using Cascade Complete (dissolved three gel packs in a gallon of water and mixed with a gallon of plain water) then did another de-oil with Dawn detergent, in case the Cascade was too harsh. I am now on my third rinse and may do one more tomorrow before finishing with 50/50 Zerez/Distilled Water.

Made some interesting observations. Thsee are specific to the 95 E320 but may also apply to your car:

1. You do not need to drain the block if your car is on a forward incline. Coolant will flow forward from the block into the radiator. The 95 naturally E320 slopes towards the front, plus my carport is inclined. Each time I drained the coolant, 9 qts came out, the 10th presumably remaining in the heater core. The fluid which came out last (from the block) was much hotter than that which came out initially (from the radiator).

2. It is not necessary to drop the entire belly pan. Remove the front right (passenger side) screw and let that corner hang a bit. The coolant will flow along the channel in the belly pan into whatever low-profile collector you use to collect it.

3. Cascade Complete works MUCH better than Dawn or Tide as a de-oiler. I noticed this when I did the first flush. The Cascade effluent was cloudy beige and contained flakes of rusty scale. The Tide effluent looked like clean, sudsy water.

I noticed again after removing the expansion tank for cleaning – which was full of scummy, oily buildup (15 years worth as the tank had never been replaced).

I used Dawn initially, filling the tank and shaking it, then emptying it out. Not much came out. Then I dissolved one gel pack of Cascade, added some hot water and shook the tank. When I emptied it, a cloudy darker beige/rust water mixed with debris flowed out. Next I tried Tide. What came out was as clean as what I poured it. Finally, I tried a half-bottle of LA Awesome Cleaner (from the dollar store). It worked just as well as the Cascade, and was not sudsy like Dawn.

When I do it again, I will use Cascade Complete (3 gel packs per gal) or LA Awesome (About 1 Qt per gallon) because they actually do work, whereas Dawn and Tide, at least for me, did not.

compress ignite · #2 09-10-2010, 12:46 AM

De-Oiling: "Shout"
C.A. Flush: Food Grade C.A. in solution ordered by FSM.

AND ,Yes you're gonna get a "Surprise" from using "Cascade Complete" as a
De-Oiler followed by a C.A. Flush.
(HINT: look @ Acid/Base levels of Cascade [in solution]AND it's "OTHER" contents.)

EOR (End of Rant).

EricSilver · #3 09-10-2010, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite

De-Oiling: "Shout"
C.A. Flush: Food Grade C.A. in solution ordered by FSM.

AND ,Yes you're gonna get a "Surprise" from using "Cascade Complete" as a
De-Oiler followed by a C.A. Flush.
(HINT: look @ Acid/Base levels of Cascade [in solution]AND it's "OTHER" contents.)

EOR (End of Rant).

I did not do a C.A flush because the coolant change was 7 years overdue and i did not want to get that aggressive in case there were serious problems.

Could you elaborate on the Acid/Base issues?

gschira · #4 09-10-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite

De-Oiling: "Shout"
C.A. Flush: Food Grade C.A. in solution ordered by FSM.

AND ,Yes you're gonna get a "Surprise" from using "Cascade Complete" as a
De-Oiler followed by a C.A. Flush.
(HINT: look @ Acid/Base levels of Cascade [in solution]AND it's "OTHER" contents.)

EOR (End of Rant).

Not knowing anything about this subject, Cascade, Shout, Acids and the "Surprise"----I too would like for you to elaborate on this please.

EricSilver · #5 09-11-2010, 11:50 AM

I am also curious about the "Surprise."

Last night I removed and cleaned the upper and lower radiator hoses. First I used hot water and Dawn, shaking it inside of the hoses, and poured out clean, blue soapy water.

Next I dissolved a Cascade Complete gel pack*, shook it the same way, and poured out nothing but filth -- and the walls of the hoses were almost entirely clean. The stuff simply works.

* By gel pack I mean the gelatin-wrapped powder tablet with the blue/green additive packs on top.

The issue is that vigorous agitation/sloshing/"water friction" is required to scour the parts clean. The huge volume of suds that Dawn creates makes that impossible, as the suds buffer, cushion and thus prevent any vigorous water movement. Cascade, being suds-free, lets water slosh and flow freely -- exactly as it it will do in the cooling system.

Also, the previously mention LA Awesome cleaner is very low-sudsing which is probably why it worked about as well as the Cascade. I would conjecture Shout works well for the same reason.

I am currently on rinse #4 and seriously considering having another go at the flush with a stronger Cascade solution, after what I saw last night with the hoses.

workerunit · #6 09-11-2010, 02:02 PM

Why do you have oil in your coolant??

EricSilver · #7 09-11-2010, 02:05 PM

Because it has not been flushed in 7 years?

Also, "De-Oiling" appears to be a term unique to MercedesShop, which I use because it is one step of the flush process.

Matt L · #8 09-11-2010, 02:15 PM

Do you run the engine for this procedure?

EricSilver · #9 09-11-2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt L

Do you run the engine for this procedure?

Yes,on both wash and rinse.

compress ignite · #10 09-12-2010, 05:56 PM

"Please,Help me stuff this elephant through a 2 inch PVC pipe."
'Always walking a Fine Line trying to clean a older
"Not so Nicely maintained,by the P.O. s " cooling system.

Too Aggressive a "De-Oiler" or "Cleaner" and afterwards you may get the
"Surprise" !

Correct me if I'm Wrong,
Cascade's an Automatic Dishwasher Detergent
[AND, here's the Kicker,STERILIZER.What additives are used to Sterilize???]
That damn dishwasher in the Kitchen is purpose built to withstand DWD,
the Mercedes ain't.
(Could, by any stretch of Chemistry,DWD be considered Corrosive?) YES.
My concern would be the Harshness of the Cascade package on the combo
of Metals used in MB cooling systems.
Then once the Cascade has weakened the finely aged metallic portions of
the cooling system.Citric acid applies the "Coup de Grace".

I am in the middle of the same battle...
The "Y" pipe (Metal) that feeds the 124.128's Coolant Reservoir Tank
has some nasty CORROSION internally
(Fools of P.O. s using GREEN COOLANT)
MB wants over $100.00 USD for the pipe.I'm gonna clean it,and then decide.
(Well,Actually there's 3 or 4 more Metallic pipes in the system.'Afraid they' ll
have to go Too.)
[and as a result I'm Cogitating over the condition of the Heater Core innards that I can't see.]
The Radiator...ain't no question,It's History.It is an Original from Sindelfingen,
without the metallic reinforcements at the necks.No Telling what's inside it.
The Engine and Water Pump/Thermostat are new, no Corrosion worries there.

EricSilver · #11 09-12-2010, 08:41 PM

In the one application, small concentration, and short duration (15 min) I employed, Cascade is almost certainly not corrosive enough to do any damage. To cause the harm you described in that short a time frame, it would need to be so caustic that it would unlikely be available for consumer sale.

Now, if someone left a strong solution of it in the car for a month, there would probably be cause for concern. But the application I described, a mild solution followed by a Dawn wash and then multiple plain water rinses, does not really allow ample time and contact for any corrosion to occur.

After your first post I added a sheet of dollar-store aluminum foil -- the cheap, thin stuff -- to a load of dishes. There was not trace of corrosion or discoloration, and my wash cycle runs much longer than 15 minutes.

The MB radiator, block and other cooling system components are made of much tougher stuff, not to mention are covered with a "slime coat" of contaminants that are a first line of defense against chemical attack by the Cascade. However, once that slime is gone, or partly gone, and even a small amount of bare metal is exposed, things might be different, which is why I hesitated to do a second Cascade cleaning, and will now not do so. (An additional cleaning with LA Awesome Cleaner, however, is still possible.)

(I don't know of any dishwasher detergents that need sterilizers since the heat of the water takes care of that.)

In defense of my cooling system, it is in exceptionally good condition. The previous owner was meticulous about maintenance, including draining/refilling coolant. I am the one who ran it overdue. But draining/refilling is not a cleansing flush. (I could shower and brush my teeth for the next year with just water, but the end result would not be the same as, at least occasionally, using soap, shampoo and toothpaste.)

Over 15 years and 237,000 miles, contaminants will accumulate in the cooling system and a detergent flush makes sense. If anything, I am surprised at how little contamination there actually was.

73Elsinore · #12 09-13-2010, 05:11 PM

Question - Why did you not use the MB factory degreasing agent - the powedered stuff that comes in the square bottle? Just curious. Thanks! Pete

mak · #13 09-13-2010, 06:58 PM

Though they are 90-95 percent ethylene glycol based ,all coolants have different additives and anti-corrosive protectants based on the specific material of seals, gaskets ,O-rings and the polymer parts used in the engine.

The replacement coolant formula has to be very much the same , Incompatible coolant mix and we have corrosion,leaks, water pump failure and overheating.

The days of the vintage compatible green coolant are long gone ,now its mostly the Orange OAT (organic acid technology). reign.
mak

EricSilver · #14 09-14-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 73Elsinore

Question - Why did you not use the MB factory degreasing agent - the powedered stuff that comes in the square bottle? Just curious. Thanks! Pete

Because I was only vaguely aware of it. In the threads I read here, most mentioned substituting another de-oiling agent, including Cascade.

dlssmith · #15 09-16-2010, 05:22 PM

FWiW, I have looked inside a lot of different diesel cooling systems in my life in farm tractors and trucks, including the one in my old 87 300D with a 603 engine. I don't recall ever seeing as much oil in any other system as there was in the 603. I contemplated cleaning it, but never did. I believe oil accumulated in the coolant as a result of blow by. I don't have any other explanation for it. There was no coolant in the oil - I had it tested a couple of times to be sure. And the oil use of that engine was almost nothing.
I put a new expansion tank on and after a time, the black sludge began to show on the walls of the new tank. The car didn't over heat no matter how hot and with the a/c running. My dad said to leave it and not worry about it and maybe it was lubricating the water pump. I do believe the oil would protect the aluminum parts quite nicely.

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