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  #1  
Old 08-21-2017, 06:57 PM
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Need serious support for 722.3 transmission rebuilding

My W124 400E transmission gave up, it acted up and I found lots of metal chips in the pan. I decided to rebuild the transmission myself, want to be brave.
The idea is : I 'll install another used transmission that I bought on ebay and then I will rebuild the failing transmission. These are 2 separate projects really.
project#1: getting the new donor transmission ( 150K miles) re-sealed and change the reverse friction disks+ flush the cooler.
Proactively I bought a Precision banner kit 68004B for the 722.3, I believe it includes all seals, gaskets and 3 x 5 Allomatic frictions K1, B3 and K2 for .
I got the donor transmission rel. cheap and the first question is: does a product like Precision make any sense or does this call for future pain if seals and disks suck in this 'aftermarket' set?
Alternative frictions would be Borg Warner, still aftermarket but seemingly more expensive but also better? I'd need recommendations regarding the quality of available banner kits or master kits (master kits have in addition to the banner kits also the steel disks).



Second question is about flushing the cooler: with chips in the pan of the old transmission ( I guess some spring has been eaten by the tranny) how great are chances that the cooler is contaminated? I guess if the pump itself is not damaged and eaten alive and the filter worked then no chips should be found in the cooler... but I might be wrong. I am planning to flush the cooler with alcohol (ethanol) and shop air.

Any suggestions are welcome as I have the donor transmission her and will start resealing soon to get it installed in the car and hopefully drive.

Project #2 will be the rebuilding of the damaged transmission and this will be the real deal and challenge for me as soon as the car is on the road again and i have some piece of mind for focusing on the total rebuilding.
Again any help is welcome for project 1 now

I have a car lift and a transmission lift..all basic tools and some experience in hydraulics...but never opened up the transmission.
Martin


Last edited by werminghausen; 08-21-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2017, 11:24 PM
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You are using what most any trans shop would be using so no problem there. Seal kits are usually packaged with parts from various sources and sometimes I've seen OE branded parts inside. ( Auto makers "make" very little of the parts in a car beyond sheet metal / assembling engines / trans. )

Do a search of the forum, there are step by step instructions somewhere. The .4 is a smaller version of the .3 and the .5 has an overdrive unit. Are all similar enough that instructions will be helpful for all.

Rebuild the trans in sections, don't just take everything apart at once. ( RE: you can take all the major assemblies out of the case but don't break down each sub assembly until you have finished reconditioning each one. )

Lay the parts out on the bench in the order that they come apart. Pick a convention so whatever parts that are facing up are to be installed in a certain direction in the trans. In older trans, there are parts ( spacers , washers ) that look like they could be installed in either direction but have subtle differences and should not be flipped over.

Buy the ATSG manual for this trans. Don't bootleg it, this company puts lots of effort into making these very good inexpensive $ 30 books and sometimes even includes real world information. https://www.atsg.us/atsg/mercedes-722-3-722-4-dl.html

The source of the failure must be found and fixed. This is easy when there is a "hard part " ( metal parts that are generally reused in a rebuild ) but can be more difficult when "soft parts" fail ( frictions / seals ) . A set of burned clutches can be replaced to get the unit going again however, if the valve body has problems, the will fail again.

Speaking of the valve body, this is an operation all unto it's self so leave that for a separate job.

~~~~~~~~~~
aftermarket.raybestospowertrain.com/allomatic.aspx

Allomatic is a brand of Raybestos Powertrain and is a leading supplier of original equipment quality automatic transmission parts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Precision International – Transmission Kits

Precision
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  #3  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:25 AM
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Do a search for the user: Stretch. I believe he has a very detailed transmission rebuild post with tons of pictures. It was for a 722.xxx, not sure of the last 3 digits, but there must be some similarity to them I think.
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2017, 07:28 AM
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Thanks 97

Is there a difference between Precision and Transmaxx brand?
There seems to be Allomatic/Raybestos and Borg Warner frictions...
Some people say Borg Warner is better quality?

Flushing the trans cooler ? Can it be that metal chips would get into the cooler?
If yes ... is flushing enough or better exchange the radiator?

I'll get the information from ATSG and search for forum information.

Thanks, Martin
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:56 AM
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Thanks Ismalley, I'll be searching for Stretch and his information:
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:05 AM
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Damage in my old transmission: I had difficulties in the last half year. Sometimes it was not shifting accurately , but only sometimes. Then transmission seemed to slip a bit at a start. And in the end I had hard shifts but modulator was fine. I tested it. Then I found the steel chips and a piece of a spring. Chips could be a spring having been chopped up and eaten by the transmission. The chips mean I cannot use the converter any more? Or can the converter be opened and cleaned? Also the cooler could be compromised. I think I'll open also the valve body as a project and check for chips. Any suggestion?
Martin
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:29 AM
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if you see metal chips in the pan and have a non moving transmission there is definitely going to be metal in the ATF cooler, you can backflush the cooler with warm ATF first (assisted with compressed air) and finish off with LubeGard Koolerclean. It can really flush out junk. You can also get your radiator to a trans repair shop who have a cooler cleaning machine, this machine pulses hot atf into the cooler circuit agitating it back and forth to loosen debris.

The torque converter can be cleaned if you are willing enough, its a very long and slow exercise with ATF, gasoline, an input shaft and lots of sloshing around. Or you can just buy a replacement rebuilt converter - make sure its the same part number.

The kits for rebuilding are of very good quality, borgwarner/raybestos/alto/allomatic all work great. If this is your first attempt, do it in pieces so you keep track of whats what. I would also suggest you to buy some bench buddies (brushes) to clean the valvebody bores, they are fantastic for this job as they polish the bore just enough to allow the valve to drop in smoothly under its own weight.
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2017, 06:17 PM
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What year is the car / transmission? Some early stuff still had a rear pump and a spring can come apart causing the gear to shear off ( leaving you with 1st gear only ) so there is some chance it came from there and go through.

In any event, you need to find where the spring came from.

I think there are 3 screws in a clutch drum that tend to come loose and would make metal.

Flush the trans cooler and add a filter to the _outlet_ of the cooler, these have a magnet to trap steel. If there isn't enough space for a filter inline, use a 360 * loop of hose on one end.

The converter will need to be replaced / rebuilt, converters make excellent centrifugal separators so in addition to clutch material, metal will be trapped. Look at a cut open converter and you will see lots of places for junk to hide.

If you take the valve body apart, be sure to work out some sort of tray to keep the parts inline, there are usually valves that can go in both ways but will only work properly in one direction. Google " transmission valve body tray " for an example. For more popular trans, they make VB specific trays but I doubt they make one for the .3 / .4 / .5

I'm not familiar with Transmaxx , but I see they have ties to Transtar, Recon, DACCO, Axiom Automotive Technologies. These companies have all been bought / sold / changed names over the years so who knows what the parent is.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2017, 06:37 PM
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Thanks 97,
My car is a 1992 400E. I think my 722.354 has a secondary pump which was omitted in the later years (is that pump to tow start the engine?). I bought another used 722.354 from eBay to get the car going and to buy some time for rebuilding the original transmission.
This means I have another torque converter but need to flush/ clean out the cooler or/ and add a filter. Any suggestions for a filter? Would a fuel filter do? What pressure is on that line? And would this be too much of resistance for the system?
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:46 PM
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Thanks Zulfigar, very helpful information. I'll consider all of it. There is some talk about tolerances in a transmission during rebuilding but the only option probably will be the size of the friction and steel plate 'packages'. Any other play I guess I need to live with like roller bearings etc? Or are there means and methods to control plays inside like shims and such?
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2017, 07:18 AM
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I wanted to ask: Which side is the output side of the transmission pump? I guess the pump pushes the oil directly into the left or right side metal lines connected with banjo fitting to the transmission housing leading to the cooler.
Flushing this cooler will be one of the tasks and I should flush in reverse of the oil flow during operation in order to flush out any metal chips and other stuff hiding there.

I'll get the LubeGard Koolerclean.

Martin
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2017, 01:28 PM
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I would suggest you buy the ATSG book for this transmission, It will tell you a lot of how to adjust end play of the output shaft with shims and how to test clutch pack play with a dial gauge.

It is a pretty good book. well worth the 30 dollars.

regarding the cooler lines, the driver side one is the supply to the cooler.
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2017, 09:07 PM
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A fuel filter will be a bit too fine, if you have an engine oil filter base that could be made to work, just be sure to mount it filter down / dirty oil to outer edge of filter / stick a magnet to the filter to capture steel bits.

You can get filters specifically made for trans cooler lines. Check the diameter of your hose and get a filter that has matching barbs. 8 mm / 5/16" and 10 mm / 3/8". Have a look here for inline filters Service-AT Inline transmission filters Shop around as while SPX Filtran is an excellent brand, these seem $.

As for shaft end play, generally if you don't replace "stack up" hard parts, the end play will be the same as when you started. It is still a good idea to check it.

For adjusting clutch clearance, trans use different thickness snap rings , pressure plate ( the first all steel plate that is installed in the clutch drum. ) intermediate steel plates and rarely friction plates. There is a generous range of clearance and sometimes what the factory says to use doesn't work so well in the field.
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2017, 07:00 AM
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Zulfiqar: I bought the ATSG book, will put it under my pillow. I have dial gauge, calipers micrometers etc. Question is where to get the shims for fine adjustments?
Thanks for confirming the drive side is the pressure side/outlet to the cooler...passenger side the return to the trans. I'll flush the cooler from the passenger side then and catch the stuff that comes out on the driver side. Will examine the fluid with a magnet.


97: What is the difference of fuel and AFT filter? Microns of filter activity? Meaning the fuel filter is too much of a resistor...I guess. There should not much resistance added..
how much flow is there really...what pressure?
Idea: I could use a cut off banjo from my donor transmission (tube is 10.0mm OD) and
get the 3/8" barbed in line filter from Makco set up at the passenger side of the trans
using a higher pressure rated hose with hose clamps. See what the second fitting looks like, machine one...and if there is space somewhere for the new filter.
The 400E seems tight down there. In the W126 is much more space.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:14 AM
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Plumbing for an additional filter:
I just checked on site...
Best would be to cut the old rubber return line at the passenger side connecting from the cooler (banjo 19mm Hex) to the transmission steel line (M14x 1.5 cone I guess). The rubber hose is OD 15mm
depending on the ID of that hose I could choose the Filter barb ... 3/8" Filter means that the barb is for a 3/8" (9,5mm) ID hose, correct? If the ID of the hose is about 9mm it would fit then.

Martin

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