Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-16-2002, 11:30 PM
amg280's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 530
Picture of bad wiring harness (400E)

Some of you had requested a pic of a bad harness. I had my air cleaner off today so I snapped a few pics. Hope this will help anyone that is uncertain of this problem.

This was taken on the drivers side cylinder bank, and i cut a piece of the outer coating back. Sometimes it skips a little and I most likely attribute it to this specific injector.

-Andy
Attached Thumbnails
Picture of bad wiring harness (400E)-wire.jpg  
__________________
93 300D 2.5 Turbo, Black/Palomino 273K
09 E350 Black/Black 41K
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-16-2002, 11:52 PM
chupr98's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 134
WHICH YEAR....

Hi Andy,

Do you know when did Mercedes start using this recycleable material as wiring insulation?
__________________
Peter Chu aka PIKACHU
08 C300 Premium Pkg, MM Pkg, Sport Pkg, Keyless Go
86 300E soon to be E36 with Euro Headlights
400E front & rear brake upgrade
16" CLK wheels with Michelin MXV4 plus Green X
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-17-2002, 02:22 AM
amg280's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 530
not sure of year range?

Well to be honest im not quite sure. I know that my car was manufactured in 11/91. And most 400E and 500E owners I talk to have this problem. Im sure that there is some people out there that will know more specifics. Im guessing 92-95 for the 119 motors.

-Andy
__________________
93 300D 2.5 Turbo, Black/Palomino 273K
09 E350 Black/Black 41K
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-17-2002, 08:04 AM
Michael's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 2,699
That photo shows a breakdown that's different then what I've seen in the later (built after I think 8/92) cars, where the insulation turns to powder. Those wires in the picture simply have cracks, no?

No problems yet on my 6/02 500E (knocking on burl)

Good luck!

BTW, which/how many harnesses do you plan to replace?
__________________
"If everything seems under control, you're simply not going fast enough" --Mario Andretti

Michael
1995 E500 street car
1986 Porsche 944 Turbo S track car
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-17-2002, 12:17 PM
amg280's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 530
I hope to just plan on replacing the main engine harness, which seems to be the one that is bad here. Yes, the wires on mine didnt turn to powder or dust, the insulation is so brittle that if u touch a wire, the insulation will just crack and fall right off.

-Andy
__________________
93 300D 2.5 Turbo, Black/Palomino 273K
09 E350 Black/Black 41K
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-17-2002, 12:31 PM
Ali Al-Chalabi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,837
Here's another pic from a little while back, courtesy of Steve Brotherton


Wiring Harness pictures
__________________
Ali Al-Chalabi

2001 CLK55
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel
2002 Harley-Davidson Fatboy
Merlin Extralight w/ Campy Record
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-17-2002, 02:10 PM
jsmith's Avatar
Ronin
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At Sea
Posts: 1,729
back when i saw steve's pictures i went and checked my old harness and slit the sheating in one place. the wires were not anywhere close to steve's example. in fact, they looked perfectly fine. the ends were they connected to the fuel injectors and other terminals were another story. they looked just like the picture that andy posted.
__________________
joE
1993 300e-2.8
- gone now <sigh>
"Do not adjust your mind, it's reality that's malfunctioning"
http://banners.wunderground.com/bann...L/Key_West.gif
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-17-2002, 02:31 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,508
I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the engine wiring harnesses on the M104 engines and the M119 engines (400E / E420 / 500E / E500) go bad for different reasons.

I have read enough posts from MB DOC and Benzmac about the insulation on the wires being changed and inherently defective on M104 engines only. I've even read the specific years (93-95) and VIN numbers in a post. There is an actual TSB regarding the insualtion problem on these M104 engines. I've seen pictures posted and seen actual harnesses in my mechanics shop. The insulation doesn't look like the one in the pictures on this post, nor on the picture that Steve Brotherton posted on the 95 E420. The M104 harnesses look like they are 2,000 years old, and the insulation has turned to dust and disintegrates in your hand. It's just gone. The problem on these M104 engines from 93-95 is systemic and all of them are either bad or going bad.

I've read enough posts to know that the harnesses do go bad on the M119 engines, but I don't believe it's the same. I think excess heat is degrading the insulation on the wires. If you go by the posts, it seems to me that a larger percentage of 500E's than 400E's go through wiring harnesses. 500E's generate more heat, thus more problems. Not all harnesses seem to go bad on these cars, too. I'm willing to bet it's a relatively small percentage. There is not even a TSB regarding an insulation problem on M119 engines.
__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-17-2002, 02:46 PM
jsmith's Avatar
Ronin
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At Sea
Posts: 1,729
there was an extensive post on the why's and wherefore's of the insulation problem. what i recall about it was that the new insulation compound was ostensibly bio-degradable. apparently there was not enough testing done as regards heat degradation with this unfortunate result. but then MBNA refuses to acknowledge that they did have a problem with the wiring harness. if there is a TSB on this issue, then it would not be such a hassle getting it replaced under that provision. there is a TSB with a reference to a wiring harness but it is an internal one and definitely not the main engine wiring harness.

BTW, my old harness (M104) did not have the insulation that "crumbles to dust". like i said, insulation seems intact and in good shape in most places except at the terminations where they are non-existent.
__________________
joE
1993 300e-2.8
- gone now <sigh>
"Do not adjust your mind, it's reality that's malfunctioning"
http://banners.wunderground.com/bann...L/Key_West.gif
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-17-2002, 02:58 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,508
FWIW, all TSB's are internal, and they are very different than recalls.

All recalls don't have to be public and broadcast on the news, but owners have to be notified at least by mail of a recall. Recalls, by the way are for safety issues.

TSB's can be about anything - notes to technicians about how to fix something, parts changes, yada yada yada.

Mercedes should've taken care of this problem, though, once they knew there was a problem. They've created so much bad will among owners for this expensive, unexpected, and unusual failure.
__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-17-2002, 02:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,777
I have never seen a TSB on wire harness.
Have seen the one on plug wire modification.
Do you have a TSB -ID. # on that ?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-17-2002, 03:06 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,508
I think I printed it out and it's at home. I'll check.

I've also seen the TSB on Alldata myself.

It talks about wire chafing and cracking. It was posted on this site before, too, which is where I got it.

What do you mean by the one on plug wire modification?
__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-17-2002, 03:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,777
I have the All Data , but can't find that one
The plug wire one addresses the plug wire ends modification on the 124s with distributor/rotor ignition.

If you find one for harness, let me know..
Thanks..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-17-2002, 03:19 PM
Lebenz's Avatar
backwoods member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In the fog
Posts: 2,862
See here for a TSB on a wiring haness problem on a '92 400E Note what is at the very top of the list, dated 1995. There are lots of others....

http://alldata.com/TSB/35/92355320.html
__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-17-2002, 03:27 PM
jsmith's Avatar
Ronin
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At Sea
Posts: 1,729
the TSB "95-0223 MAR 95 Recall - Wiring Harness Chafing/Shorting" (appears on 300E & 400E) is on an internal harness, not the main wiring harness. that particular one has been discussed on the forum. if there ever was a recall or even a TSB, it would be very well documented on this forum because then, the dealerships and MBNA would have to seriously pay attention to it.
__________________
joE
1993 300e-2.8
- gone now <sigh>
"Do not adjust your mind, it's reality that's malfunctioning"
http://banners.wunderground.com/bann...L/Key_West.gif

Last edited by jsmith; 06-17-2002 at 04:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page