Hello PeachParts!

The last time I was here was way back in 2008. At that time I was known as Red560SL. Unfortunately I was not able to recover that account so I came up with this new name instead.

Anyway, back in 2006 is when I first started this project. I did a lot to the car over a 2 year period which is documented under the red560SL account. But then in April of 2008 I parked the car because I had enough of the car. Every time I turned around it cost me thousands of dollars in special tools and MB parts and I was just done with it. I began to hate the car. It had a terrible rear seal leak and the trans started to slip as well. It was a money pit and took all my time and I never got to enjoy it. Believe it or not, I have only driven the car a little over 850 miles since I have owned it. That said, it is now December 2021 and the car is exactly as I left it in 2008. I have not started the car since 2008 either.....

I was tired of looking at my 560SL sitting in the garage these past 13 years so in November I pulled the transmission and sent it to Sun Valley Mercedes Transmissions for rebuild (will be done soon). All this is documented on my YouTube channel if you're interested.

I started to replace the rear seal by removing the old one and while doing so I found that the rear cover plate was damaged (found my leak). So I bought a new rear cover plate, but if you are going to do that, you probably need to change the oil pan gasket as well. And if you have done an oil pan gasket then you know it is a nightmare job. Basically you remove the subframe and everything else that's under the car to replace that simple gasket. So I decided to pull the engine instead. So I went out and purchased a hoist and a stand and I pulled the engine (never did that before). Believe it or not, pulling the engine was one of the easiest things I've done on this car.

I now have the engine out and on a stand. I have also pulled the oil pan and like I figured (my rabbit hole), I found broken guide pieces in the oil pump screen. Just 2 small pieces, but they were there. This leads me to believe I have a broken guide somewhere. It's not likely a top guide because I replaced those and the chain already. It must be a bottom guide that is broken (or it is from something else). If it's a bottom guide then the front timing cover needs to come off. YUK! It's not the oil pump guide.

So here I am today and I'm way too deep into this thing. I was only going to change a rear seal and now I'm rebuilding an engine. I'm not a mechanic and I don't know where to begin and I have no real manual to speak of. Years ago I had a decent manual, but I can't find it anywhere. Today I'm trying to rebuild this engine using horrible PDF's I find on-line:

https://www.tonk.ca/Index/117.5index.html

and:

https://www.tonk.ca/misc/service-man-engine-m116-m117/

Is this the best there is? The ones for sale on eBay claim to be for all Mercedes, but when I purchase one I get an email back from the seller claiming they do not support my 87 560SL. This happened with 2 different sellers. Even though their ads claim the 560SL is supported.

Does anyone know the sequence of tearing down an engine without screwing something up? I have never taken an engine out of a car and I have never taken an engine apart so I am here asking for any assistance I can get. I obviously have to remove the front timing cover to replace the guides, but I clearly need to remove the heads first and probably the intake manifold and what else? And what about all that timing stuff? I have a lot of tools including the MB front and rear seal installers.

I will probably need to send my heads to a machine shop once they're off. What else do I do? Do I take out the rods, pistons and rings? And what about the crank? Do I machine the crank, the case, the cam or? And what about valves and guides and seals and those springs oh my? OMG I am way over my head in this thing. I have knowledge of how it all works, but it's been years since I have seen the inside of an engine. The 1st and last time I rebuilt an engine was in the late 70's and that was on a 4 cylinder air cooled VW bug. This 560SL is a monster in comparison.

I know, I'm crazy, but please don't tell anyone. I'm sure I'm not the first one that got in over his head.

First, price a used engine. A sedan engine will do, since you have the parts handy to switch over. If you've never rebuilt an engine before, especially one of the benz alloy ones, you probably want to let your machinist do all the measuring and figuring. They'll charge you accordingly.

Second, note the admonishments all over about needing to helicoil/timesert all the head bolt holes. This isn't a step you can skip. It requires a special plate. Make sure your machinist has access to it. (I know a guy who can rent you one if your machinist knows how to use it, it's not home-shop kind of step).

-CTH

__________________
- cth350@gmail.com
http://www.111lakeside.com/

Do a cylinder leak down test BEFORE pulling any thing apart. Those are robust engines with a good chance it does not need a rebuild, maybe just valve work if anything. If the test is good fix everything timing chain and oil leak related and drive on!!!


Good luck!!!

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"Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength" - Eric Hoffer

Thank you so much. I have yet to remove the heads. I just posted a question on which bolts to remove. I really am a novice and the manual is of no help. I know how an engine works and I rebuilt VW’s in the 70’s, but this is quite different. I also had a real shop manual in the day. This PDF crap I have access to for this car is making it more difficult than it should be. Once I get it all apart I’ll be fine. It’s the not knowing how it is all put together that is killing me. Breaking anything on this car is expensive!

I should mention I did the upper guides, chains & cam gears prior to this. I also rebuilt the entire subframes, rear axles & gearbox, rebuilt calipers, steering gearbox and so on. I have rebuilt everything mechanical but the engine and now I’m doing that. I have the mechanical skills, but I’m lacking the experience. I just don’t know what to expect.

The car has not started since 2008 and it is sitting on an engine stand. I didn’t intend to rebuild it. I removed the trans and sent it off to Sun Valley Mercedes. Since trans is out and it has a rear seal leak, I removed the rear seal. After removing I find the seal spun and gouged the rear cover. So I have a new cover which means now the pan gasket needed replacement. Because of this I decided to pull the engine (tranny already out). After removing the pan I then find lower slide rail pieces in the oil pump’s pick up tube. So now I have to remove the front timing cover to replace those broken guides. When I remove that I can only imagine what I find next.

As you can see it all started with a simple rear seal replacement and then spun out of control. I call it my personal rabbit hole. Oh yah, after removing the engine I find broken & burned wires in the harness so I’m doing that too.

Doesn’t this happen to everyone owning one of these cars? I’ve just accepted I will be tearing this engine apart. Maybe I’ll need to grind the cams & crankshaft and install new main bearings and spend a million dollars on this $5,000 car.

Whether or not you pull the engine apart is obviously your decision; however, it will be a waste of time if the cylinders and valves are good which could be determined by a leak down test. In addition to the extra work, wait until you see the price of machine work and internal engine parts. I hope this does not happen to you but I've seen this stall projects into eternity.

Good luck!!!

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"Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength" - Eric Hoffer

I hear you. I was the one who parked the car in 2008 because of this same reason. I actually hate the car. It’s a rabbit hole that I have decided I either need to crush or fix. I’m tired of looking at this car sitting in the garage. I’ve owned the car since 2006 and have only driven it 836 miles (only 50 miles since complete suspension rebuild) and it’s time to get it started.

I have to remove the front timing cover and replace the broken guides. I really have no choice but to do the work. I’m not removing pistons or the crankshaft unless I see scoring or other evidence that screams a complete rebuild. I can see after removing the intake & exhaust manifolds that the exhaust valve seals leak in a couple of cylinders so a valve job is in need or they at least need some TLC. But I need to remove the heads before I will conclude the heads need a machine shop. The car has 140,000 and things just wear out and when they sit for 14 years, who knows what else that does.

I personally have in this perspective, although the SL runs well, it needs a suspension build, and has various other items to do. But the reality is, there is not a need to drive the car, and it is relatively rust free. So, the goal now is to keep the body from rusting, and spin it around here and there to keep the rubber and bearings from developing flat spots. The R107 is going up in value and the 560Sl is one of the top grabbers. So, if you can, take your time, relax and do it correctly, after gaining the knowledge to do so.
The 5.6 liter for your model is the same as other models with that engine. Any MB 5.6L shop manual will work if it is the same year.
I am still not understanding the reasoning for the rebuild or pulling of the head. If it ran well before, the most beneficial would be to do a refurb with new gaskets and seals. I do understand the desire to take things to bits though. Engineers have that sort of inkling. Everything mechanical has to be taken apart and put back together. You have to reason, if it was fine in 2008 as far as core mechanics go, then it is ok now.
Best thing to do has already been advised from previous posts. Fix the timing guide then compression test. You should remember if it ran well or not when you parked it. The whole thread here doesn't quite add up.
Please see the value. These things are classics, and rust free specimens should be preserved if possible.
Edit
I just watched one of your videos, and it's quite impressive actually. I think you will get it figured out. I guess some of the thread is tongue and cheek. Now it adds up. I still would keep the head intact especially with that time-cert issue. Thats definitely more than a 5000 dollar car.

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Chris
84 280sl
82 300d euro

I have the engine torn down. I have posted a summary video on my YouTube channel which shows what I found.

https://youtu.be/VwGMKS5E-Mo

The only reason I torn things down on the engine is because I felt I had no choice. I have driven the car less then 50 miles so I really have no idea if it was good before I started. It sure did leak oil out that rear seal that’s for sure. I purchased the car at an auction & have no history. The car has now been sitting without being turned over in 14 years. I know there are guys that find a barn find and just fire it up, but that’s insane if you ask me. The reason I parked it in 2008 is because it started pouring oil out the exhaust and I just got sick of working on the car. The oil problem ended up being the oil tubes blew off and filed the heads with oil until it blew past the valves.

Anyway, I started working on the car again in November 2021. The trans leaked and slipped so I removed it and sent it to Sun Valley for rebuild. While the trans is out you should replace the rear seal. When I took the seal out I found out why it was leaking. The old seal had spun and gouged the rear cover. So now I need a rear cover which turned into a pan gasket. At that point I decided it would be much easier to do these repairs with the engine out. After all the trans was already out. When I removed the pan I found broken guide pieces in the oil pump. I knew it wasn’t upper guides because I had changed them. So now I needed to remove the front cover.

So you can see none of this was my idea. But now here I am and it’s getting deeper yet. I can’t just quit on her now. Watch my video and you will see what I uncovered after tearing things down. So far I’m glad I’ve taken the engine apart. I’ve learned a lot about the car’s history and I learned what I need to do going forward. Is the car worth it? Probably not.

I’ll listen to all help I can get.