Seat question RE: seat heater elements - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MikeTangas · #1 10-08-2002, 04:46 PM

Here's my dilema, I stopped by my favorite salvage yard today and they recent obtained an '87 420SEL in the same color combo as the 560. This car has a shade over 100K on the clock at the time of wreck and the interior is nearly flawless. The leather feels like a brand new pair of gloves, soft and supple, no cracks scratches or tears, stitching is tight. The car was not equipped with seat heaters.

I have the opportunity to get these seats for next to nothing, barely even a song.

Is it possible to simply move the heating elements from my existing seats to the 420's? If so, what is the best way to accomplish the task? Or would I be better off skinning the 420's seats and moving the hide to my existing seats?

mark cummins · #2 10-08-2002, 05:05 PM

Hi Mike, Yes You can Remove the Seats out of your Car and Swap the Leather seat covers...You Must Remove the The Heated Pads from the old seats and resew the Heating pads to the NEW seat covers..Lots of Time But Yes It Can Be Done...Im Doing this In My W210 wagon..Installing Heated Seats Into a Car That Was Built Without Heated Seats...Major Pain But Worth It!
Except I Have to Install A Harness,New Center Wood,and The Seat Mod..But Ahhh Heated Seats Are Nice!Even In So Cali

Good Luck!

Mark

MikeTangas · #3 10-08-2002, 05:22 PM

The heating elements are sewn to the seat covers? Actually sewn to the leather, or to a fabric backing? I can wrench with the best of them, but not sure what kind of saddle making skill I possess

.

I guess sewing in makes sense, keeps the elements in place. I was hoping it would be a simple swap. Any further info you can pass on Mark is appreciated.

Billybob · #4 10-08-2002, 05:25 PM

Seems like it would be pretty simple to remove the resistance heat element (from the pictures it looks like a flexible pad, probably fireproof with the wire elements inside), that is sandwiched between the leather covering and the padding underneath.

If you get the new seats it would be a fairly simple operation once you remove you're present seats to disassemble the old seat bottom, pull the heaters, disassemble the new seat bottom, position the heater, reassemble the new bottom, and install you're new "heated" seat!

It has been a while since I pulled apart a couple of seats at my local boneyard to obtain newer/better seat spring boxes for my 126, I ended up removing the seatbacks altogether because it was quicker and easier as I was only after the springs, but because the seat bottom cover material is only held in place with a friction fit channel around the seat spring box frame, you may be able to simply compress the seat springs to release the tension on the material and therebye gan the slack nessessary to pull the fastening strip from the channel. You might be able to then fold back the seat bottom material and install the heater in place, and then reposition and fasten the leather back in place. With the entire seat outside of the car this should be pretty doable because you will have easy access to the underside areas. You'll need to position the wiring to make and keep you're electrical connections throughout the range of seat motion and that should be easier outside of the car.

One thing that I did take notice of in my foray is that the leather seat materials on boneyard seats can look decievingly better than they actually are, once I started pulling and stretching the material. The seats I worked on where pretty good looking but the leather was pretty dry and ripped in a couple places around the sides of the seat botton cushion. If I was lucky enough to find a set of better seats and would be swapping them over I would seriously consider going through a "Leatherique" rejuvination/cleaning process on the newer seats before working on them. I believe that softening and conditioning the leather before potentially stressing it during some disassembly/assembly work would be a prudent precaution. Should be pretty easy to do better and completely outside of the vehicle rather than after installation and may very well avoid the possibility of damaging nice seats before you can really enjoy them.

If you made sure all the springs where functioning and maybe even adding suplemental springs (there is a thread with the part numbers) you will be in great shape for the next 100 or 200K, or at least until your travels lead you to the "holy grail of seatdom" the factory option orthopedic seats that are out there somewhere waiting to be the next project!

Good Luck!

P.S. you might find some info or guidance from these guys
http://www.bergwerks.com/
http://www.bergwerks.com/seat_heat.jsp

Regarding the sewing (I'm a darn slow typist so I'm behind in the conversation) you might be able to alternatively position the heater element under the seat cover and then use something like high temp RTV to secure it in place if movement is a possible problem rather than stitching it in place. Also do you know if the heater is a single element on the seat bottom or dual elements on the bottom and the seat back?

mark cummins · #5 10-08-2002, 05:34 PM

Mike,Its Just Labor to remove the Stitching from the old seats and Resew them into the New Covers... Im Installing E55 Two Tone Seats Into the Wagon.. Btw I Tried to Use My Wifes Machine to resew them But That wont work! Sew them by hand!

Good Luck

Mark

MikeTangas · #6 10-08-2002, 05:53 PM

BillyBob, The heaters are dual element - seat cushion and backrest. Double the work.

Mark, I reckon I can give it a try. Plan is to go up Saturday morning and yank the seats as a complete unit. Plan to get them out and home in time to get the girls to their riding/horse care lesson. That naturally puts me behind the eightball, cuz surer N all get out I'll run into a snag. Does the sewing require a special needle or upholsterer's thread?

Only catch to the deal is I have to return my old seats to go with the wreck, so I'll have to disassemble very carefully.

Couldn't find anything in detail about the mounting of the heating elements in the manual, plenty about them except the mounting. I might also take the cowards way out and just look through the "seat wharehouse" for a matched set with heaters installed, but that might require me to hum a few extra bars

.

I'll let y'all know what's up. Thanks for the help.

MikeTangas · #7 10-12-2002, 04:03 PM

Well,

I yanked the seats this morning. Everything went pretty smooth once I figured out how to access the bolts since the seats were stuck in position (battery and cables gone). Took about 45 minutes to yank both.

Got home and started separating the seat back from the cushion and in the process learned the secret to undoing those reusable zip ties, what a snap with offset needlenose

. Before skinning out the replacement seats, I pulled the passenger side from the 560 and started careful disection of the cushion. Sure enough, the heater elements are sewn in just as Mark stated.

Actually, there are more acurately, sandwiched in between the leather and a piece of heavy muslin. Don't know yet if the pleat pads on the nonheated seat are separate strips or not, but on the heated seat the element has a "finger" for each pleat, with individual pads. everything is then covered by a piece of musling and sewn down the fold between the pleats.

Now I'm off to the fabric shop. Gonna try to find some heavy muslin, heavy thread and a heavy needle. We'll see how my sewing skills turn out. Good thing I have a long weekend, but I don't think it will be enough time

.

After I get the hang of this, or one seat done, I'll try to get a few before, during and after shots.

suginami · #8 10-12-2002, 06:39 PM

Excellent! I hope it works out for ya.

If I remember, the leather in the front seats were awfully cracked, and the new seats will probably make a biiiiiiiig improvement.

Are you still considering moving to Spokane? Would this be a new position within the Border Patrol?

Billybob · #9 10-12-2002, 06:58 PM

The rumor could be bad news!!! Muslin? I've heard rumor it is more likely HEMP!!!!!

Hope this won't effct K-9 sniffer operations! Damn that dog keeps following you know who!

suginami · #10 10-12-2002, 06:59 PM

Yeah, wouldn't that be funny? The dog keeps signaling to its handler that Mike smells like marijuana.

MikeTangas · #11 10-12-2002, 08:36 PM

My gosh this is a slow operation. 1.5 hours to hand stitch one pleat. Well, only 27 more to go.

daddiojiggy · #12 10-12-2002, 09:06 PM

i was on the same wavelength as billybob-with one exception(although it may be too late now:when installing/removing the skins do your best to keep them warm/hot as this helps with stretching and manoevering the skins.i'm surprised-i thought the seat heater would have been able just to sit under the seat cover with little attention

MikeTangas · #13 10-12-2002, 10:39 PM

You know, I though they just sat between the skin and pad too, but NOT. I did clean the leather and applied a heavy dose of lanolin to further soften the soft leather.

I have completed two pleats since last post. With experience comes a little (very little) speed. I decided to stop because it was getting a little tough to see them little holes, even in the bright overheads I have in the garage.

Couple tips for those inclined to do this type of install

Use quality upholstery thread, in a close color match (for the tan leather I'm using taupe - pretty close). A heavy needle, but not so heavy it stratches out the prior needle holes, a #6 tapestry needle is about right. A chain stitch woks great in this type repair, starting from the inside to out, loop back to the next hole and start working through the muslin. Come back out the first hole, skip the next (the one you went in from the outside) and go in the first "empty" hole. Loop back through the muslin and come out the first entry hole, repeat until at the end of the pleat (I didn't know what it was called, I explain to wifey and sheadvised it's a chain stitch).

The big tip here is to keep the muslin backing taut. The tautness of the backing is what gives the pleat their slight billow. If you don't keep the backing tight, the pleats will be deflated and wrinkled. If you haven't started stitching yet Mark, keep this in mind. I find that using small woodworking quick clamps helps to hold things in place. I'm using one to keep the finger of the heater I'm working on in the pleat and another to hold the muslin tight in some gathered leather.

MikeTangas · #14 10-14-2002, 06:18 PM

Got the passenger side finished and installed.

Here is what the seats looked like before:

And here is what the passenger side looks like now:

Here is the finshed seat prior to install:

and a close up of the stitching

It was an awful lot of work, but sure worth it. Took me the better part of 3 days to yank the seats, strip one, move the heater and hand sew each pleat, then finish the install. I'm sure the other side will go a little quicker, but I need some rest. I can state that this is not a project for the impatient. Hand stitching the pleats is very tedious, slow work. My biggest single compliment on the job came from wifey (she sews), she took one look at the finished seat cushion and asked if I had sewn it. I was working on the backrest, replied "yup" with a smile and all she could saw was "WOW".

We'll see when I'm up to do the other side

, the eyes and fingers need a little break..

suginami · #15 10-14-2002, 07:32 PM

Very nice job! I'm sure the car looks a lot better. I think your old seats looked even worse than the photo shows.