Mike,
I think you have a point about low mileage being the problem although I always tried to drive it at highway speeds at least once a week.

I'm going to give the dealer a blank check on this thing and go with whatever the Tech decides needs to be done.

I just got my car back from Schumaker Motors in Scottsdale, AZ. The problem was the head gasket. They could find no other problems except for a soft hose and a cracked serpentine belt. They flushed the cooling system twice to make sure they got the oil out of it.

The head, chain, valves, etc. were all fine.

These guys are expensive but it's the most pleasant service experience I've had since I bought my first German car in 1957. What an amazing dealership!

Boy do I apprecieate the 300E after having to drive a Ford loaner for two days.

I wouldn't get too upset about the gasket failing at this mileage, either. I agree with the previous comments about low mileage.

Things like seals, gaskets and rubber bushings don't do too well with sitting.

The age in years of your car is more indicative of it's true age as opposed to the odometer.

As to the failure rate of the M103, I can't comment too much past the fact that I know lots of M104 owners with new gaskets, and not many M103 owners. But, that's just my personal experience. The M103 in our family is at 336,000 kilometers, and no leaks yet (touching wood!).

If it were my car, I'd spend the extra money to freshen the head even with the low mileage, since the majority of the expense is in R&R'ing the head anyway. All IMHO...

__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

The Service Rep told me they saw more M104's with head gasket problems than M103's. The job is done. The people who did it had essentially a blank check from me and did whatever they thought was necessary. They didn't find anything wrong with the head. Maybe it's because this engine has had Mobil 1 15W-50 in it since the 1,200 mile mark.

My wife and I both thought the car ran especially well after we got it back but that may be because we've been stuck driving a
Taurus for three days.

Since we're down to one car, it won't be sitting around so much anymore.

I think the '93 has the M104 engine, not the M103. I'm not sure though.

Have a great day,

That's right.

1993 300E's have M104 engines - either the 3.2 or the 2.8 liter.

1993 300E's (3.2's) have the same vin #, engine #, and chasis # as 1994-1995 E320's. They just didn't change the badge as they should have. See my signature below.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Hi guys (Bud in particular!)

<*** thanks so much for the info Bud! I was just recommended by ******** (MB parts) an indy in Mesa (Hillprecht Auto) I'm gonna try for now...looks like my leak is coming from the back side of the water pump--maybe a seal I hope! I suppose he'll be able to tell if it is a head gasket since I have NO clue!! $538 for the replacement of the pump includes about 6 hours of labor and roughly $150-200 for the pump. Hopefully that does the trick!! Thanks again! Mike ***>>>

I have recently experienced a coolant leak coming from what seems to me to be the water pump area but being a non-techie I suppose it could be coming from a blown head gasket?? It ends up dripping off the oil pan right by the plug and I did notice some dried-up brownish streaks along that side of the engine so it must have been doing this for a while although haven't noticed it running hot except for last week when sitting idle with the A/C on for 10-15 minutes. Took off and it cooled down so figured it was from not driving it--maybe that was my mistake?!

Car seems to run fine for the most part with occasional rough cold start and rough idle once in a while--I attribute this to the fouling of 3 out of 6 of my plugs--this car too has only 72k miles on it and is using oil (about a quart every 500-1000 miles) and I figure the valve stem seals are ruined based on my research on this wonderful forum.

Also, realized tonite that I probably do have some sort of oil in my coolant overflow tank as the lower half has a kind of brownish tinge to it. I don't see signs of coolant in the oil as the dipstick oil looks crystal clear--is that how you check that? So could be ATF--how do I tell that?

In my research on the blown head gasket, I've seen the comment of checking for wet plugs and I'll do that in the a.m. but wanted to get this out there ASAP!

My question to Bud if you don't mind me asking was what Schumacher charged you to do the work?? I have heard not good things about them so was pleased to hear of your great experience but am definitely curious about your comment of them being expensive!

Lastly, I've seen such variation in the cost of doing the head gasket--anywhere from $1500-3500...sheesh, I don't know what I'll tell my wife if it is $3500!! well, even $1500 for that matter!!

Sorry to ramble and THANKS to all of you for your help--it has been invaluable over the last year or so! Mike

Mike,
I was charged the following:
- Labor...$1,140
- Head gasket set...$148.52
- Cooling syst cleaning compound..$18.70
- Coolant...$17.00
- Hose and Clamps....$15.75 (short hose to water pump while they had it apart)

They had the car for three days and provided a free rental car while they had it.

The job they did seems to have been excellent. No problems so far. They checked the head for warping and no other parts needed replacement even though I told them to correct any problems they found.

The parts costs are high but I'll be going back to Schumacher for anything I can't do myself. My experience with those guys was outstanding.

The most important thing is that they do a lot of head gaskets so they know what they are doing. Besides, you are treated like a king...lots of goodies and drinks

We have a '93 300TE 4Matic with 270,000 miles. This is a 103 engine. The engine has minor oil "seeps", our very good "indie" has used a flourescent dye in the oil to locate all the areas. I use about a quart of oil every 5000 miles, I use Castrol 10W50 and change every 5M miles. The seals were done at about 150M, engine runs fine, the problem is the drip wherever I stop the car. We can't find another car we would rather have so the problem is whether to have the gaskets replaced, along with other work while they are in the job. After reading the various gasket comments I get the feeling maybe we should leave this alone and tolerate the drips until it gets much worse. Taking the head off might be opening a can of worms. I'd like to hear any comments. We have replaced the waterpump and alternator, the powersteering pump has a minor leak. Thanks for your comments. srharvey

Sharvey,

Since you have a M104 engine- It is apparent by the responses that the sign of needing a headgasket is oil in the coolant.

The external oil leak is probably the front cover needing to be re-sealed which is not very expensive.

To the list: So you guys don't consider a M103 headgasket leaking oil externally as a "head gasket failure". Only when there is mixing between coolant and oil?

I'll put valve seals in mine this year and see how things go. From what I see in Texas, you need to make sure the aux fan comes on when the coolant gets hot.

Michael

__________________
Michael McGuire
83 300d
01 vw A4 TDI
66 Chevy Corsa
68 GMC V6 w/oD
86 300E

If you have a leak in the rear corner of the engine, it's the head gasket. If you plan to keep the car for any length of time, I'd have it repaired before it gets worse. If you get to the point where there is oil in the coolant, you will have to add the cost of a coolant system flush not to mention any other possible problems that could arise.

Make sure you have it done by a highly experienced person/shop. If they don't do it right the first time, you will just have more cost and grief down the line. When they have the head off they should replace anything that's difficult to get to like the serpentine belt and the short hose between the head and the thermostat housing.

Done correctly, you will not have any more problems. I believe they changed the head gasket to correct the problem.

Not saying that I am doing the correct thing, but I have been driving my '92 300E M103 with a very slight head gasket leak for now going on 130,000 miles. I have crawled under the engine and watched the leak.

There is no contamination of coolant. I have to watch coolant levels and oil levels about every 500 miles. It's not burning oil, it's just leaks a little.

I will eventually get around to having the top end re-built and head gasket replaced.

Steve

MB agreed to change (on warranty) the valve seals on my engine (I was aware that better seals went into production after my car was built.) to, hopefully, improve oil consumption, which was about a quart every 2K miles, however I elected to wait until just prior to the end of the four year/50K mile warranty, and at about 48K the head gasket began to seep coolant toward rear of the exhaust side, so they pulled the head and completely rebuilt it - all new guides, new exhaust valves, and, or course the newer viton seals.

The engine seemed to pull a little stronger at the top end after the rebuild, but interestingly the oil consumption was about the same, and has maybe degraded to a quart every 1500 since then.

Bottom line as Larry said is that head gaskets that seal materials with different thermal expansion characteristics will not typically last as long as if both head and block materials are the same, and it's a matter of the number of thermal cycles, not miles, so a car that sees low average trip mileage between cold starts is going to have the head gasket go in fewer miles than a car that has high average trip mileage.

Owners of vintage Alfa Romeos consider changing the head gasket at least every 50K miles, if not sooner, as "normal maintenance".

Duke

I agree with the previous comments about the age of car and not the miles driven as contributing factors in failures of certain engine parts.

When I bought my 88 124C/103 four years ago, it only had 41,000 miles on it.
Nothing at all for a 13 year old car. But a PPI revealed a leaking head gasket (yes, at the rear of the head, external only) which was replaced at the time.

A year and a half later (at 55,000) valve seals replaced to cure heavy oil consumptiion.

I can't compare the engines. But I have no gripe with my 103. Trouble free car. Get in and Go.

Parting thought: Consider a coupe or cabriolet if your single or getting a second car. Rare bird and dynamite looks.

It just occurred to me that this thread is ANCIENT!

Duke