Just wanted to drop a line and say hello to the group and see if anyone can help me with a few questions. Recently I just got back into another MB “again”, after owning an 88 260E, 94 E320, 96 SL320. I have been very much involved in the Porsche 911 group, mainly in providing technical help and DIY instruction for other air-cooled Porsche 911 owners. My web site is http://p-car.com

I had to purchase a bigger car because the Porsche 911 is just not a practical car for everyday use. So I purchased a 1993 MB 300TE 4 MATIC with 125,000 miles on the clock for $10,000.

Here are some questions I wonder if someone can help me with.

(1). I noticed a jerky hard shift problem when shifting from 2nd and 3rd (assuming the car starts off in 2nd gear), less apparent if the A/C was off, but with the A/C on it makes a “clunk” sound every time. I don’t remember any of my previous MBs that did this, so I just wanted to find out if this was normal for the TE 4 MATIC model?

(2). I read the owner’s manual and saw spec. that the motor in the 4 MATIC model is smaller and produces less horse power than the standard 2 wheel drive model, and was curious to why MB did this? My logic would tell me that the MB should have used a more powerful motor in the 4 wheel drive model instead?

(3). Am I correct to assume that the 4 MATIC model basically just have the additional 4 wheel drive system and the auto leveling system compare to the standard 300TE model?

(4). How does the Auto leveling system work?

(5). Can anyone recommend a good independent shop in the Miami area (Doral)?

(6). Is there a web site with all the DIY instructions listed for the 300TE model? Like how to flush the fluids 4 MATIC hydraulic system? How to change other fluids etc?

(7). What’s a good place to purchase discount parts on line?

(8). With the mileage on the engine what oil weight is recommended for Florida warm climate area? What about using Mobil 1 synthetic oils? Any draw backs for this high mile motor?

Thank you

Robin
93 MB 300TE 4 MATIC
96 Porsche 993
00 BMW 323ci
http://p-car.com

Welcome to this forum. As a fellow owner of a 300TE 4Matic, I'll try to answer some of your questions.

1. A hard shift is normal for this model MB, at least until it warms up. If you do a search on this topic, you will find a lot of helpful information. In fact, there was just a thread on this within the past couple of weeks.

2. Can't help you here; I wasn't even aware that they did that. I'm now curious to know why too, since my car could use more hp too.

3. As far as I know yes.

4. Sensors. Perhaps one of the techs on this board will be able to give you the technical expaination I think you're looking for.

5. Sorry no, I'm up north.

6. No website that I'm aware of, but I found the maintenance CD's sold here in the parts shop, and this board, to be very helpful for DIY work.

7. Again, I'd use the parts shop here.

8. What oil to use . . . there's been endless discussion on this. If you do a search in this and the "Vintage Mercedes" group, I'm sure you'll find lots of information on the subject. Personally, I use Kendall 20w-50w dino oil in the summer and Kendall 10w-30w dino oil in the winter. Kendall also makes a synthetic & dino oil blend, but I haven't heard much about it, so I'm sticking with what has worked well for me so far.


1962 MB 220SEb "Fintail" Sedan
1963 Vespa VNB4T Scooter
1992 MB 300TE 4Matic Wagon
1995 Subaru Legacy AWD Wagon

I don't think there should be any 'clunk' when warm, especially not from 2nd to 3rd. The gear change is usually quite noticeable under throttle openings, but shouldn't be very noticeable under light constant-load throttle.

I have a feeling all 300TE's have self-levelling (rear) suspension, too.


Stick with the air-cooled over the water-cooled 911's, p-car..!

__________________
190E's:
2.5-16v 1990 90,000m Astral Silver
2.0E 8v 1986 107,000m Black 2nd owner
http://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall.jpghttp://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall2.jpg

Robin,

I understand that the 3.2L engine for 1993 was not used in the 4Matics because of the increased torque placed on the 4 wheel drive system. (So I have been told.)

The clunking, is when the vehicle shifts over from 4 wheel drive to rear wheel drive at 12 mph. (The car automatically starts out in 4 wheel drive up to that speed, then shifts back to the rear wheels, absent slippage. MBZ told me this is normal for the system, and only occurs when accelerating from a dead stop to 12 mph, not decelerating.)

I'm also interested in a "how to" fluid change for the 4Matic. Can anyone provide instructions?

__________________
'94 E500 Anthracite
'92 300E 4Matic (donated to charity)
'90 300TE 4Matic

Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions, looks like I found the right forum to hang out. Hopefully when I slowly figure out the MB cars I can have a DIY web page set up just like the one I have for the p-cars.

For sure I am keeping the air cooled 911, definitely not going to step over to the water cooled Porsche any time soon.

As for the "clunk" during shifting, I think everyone missed the fact that this "clunk" sound and jolt only happens when the A/C is turned on. And the car shifts flawlessly when the A/C is off.

This which makes me believe that there is a vaccum leak somewhere in the climate control system. (Itis operated completely with vaccum control, right?) My logic is since the transmission modulator is controled by vaccum (I assuming it is), that once the A/C climate control is turned on the vaccum there from the controls causes less vaccum needed to control the shifting of the transmission properly?

Everything with the A/C seem to work properly, it blow cold air and there are no abnormal noises.

Now the next step is to take a apart the climate control console and figure out where the vaccum leak is. Anyone have any instruction on how to remove the radio? Climate control system? and is there a radio security code that I need to enter once I remove the radio? (Original radio unit)

TIA

Robin

Welcome to heaven and hell, all in the same car. Heaven when it works, hell when it doesn't. I've had a '91 TE 4m since '96 and its been a fun car to own.

The M103.985 (IIRC) is in the 4matics all the way through the lodel run because of torque, but also because of tooling. The M103 in the 4matic is slightly different than non 4matic M103s. The oil dipstick is on the exhaust side of a 4matic and the intake side on a non 4matic. Also, the 4matic oil pan is MUCH heavier, possibly cast but I'm not certain, and there is a shaft coming out of each side and the back of this monster pan. There is a little cover on the bottom that is fastened with allen bolts, unlike the regular M103 with a regular pan arrangement.

The literature I've read says the 4matic added only about 300 lbs to a standard 124 chassis. I think they were really snowing the writers on that one. The car rides very heavy, like a tank on wheels. I recommend 4matics to people who want an interesting car and need guaranteed transportation in bad weather. I laugh at the idea of tweaking a 4matic for performance or handling. Trade cars and save yourself $1000s if that's what you want.

There is also a ring of truth to the idea that they didn't want to add 40 hp to the drivetrain by using the 4 valver, but I think the tooling costs of modifying the newer engine for only one more year of production was prohibitive.

Good luck with the car.

someguyfromMaryland

Sorry, I got sidetracked and didn't answer your questions.

1. I leave trannies for the pros.

2. See post above.

3. The 4matic is built more like an S class in the drivetrain and suspension than the normal 124's. The springs in front are specially wound with an opening for the driveshaft, the control arms are much more massive, as are the steering knuckles. Overall it is a much more solid riding car than the regular 124's.

4. You really need a manual to get the full flavor of the auto levelling system. Basically, the hydraulic pump provides pressurized fluid to a hydropneumatic compensator which is mounted between the diff and the chassis. When there is motion between the two, a linkage provides feedback to the compensator to allow more or less fluid under pressure to the rear suspension pressure spheres, which act as surge volumes for the shocks.

5. I don't know, you're looking for someguyfromFlorida. 8^)

6. Flushing the actual 4matic system isn't for the faint of heart. The manual references a test module that actually cycles the hydraulic computer and moves the fluid through the system while parked in the shop. I've never had the nerve to price one. The diffs and xfer case can be drained and refilled like any other gearbox, although the front diff doesn't have a drain plug so you need to get a new gasket for the pan before you start.

7. Fastlane is a good place to start if you're looking for parts. There are others, but mentioning them on this list is, to me, like farting in church.

8. The only oil I use in my 4matic is 15W-40. The newer grades are probably much better now, but when I first got into MBs in '96 I read some really good articles on oil and viscosity enhancers. MB recommended 15W-40 back before they went to Mobile 1 for the newer cars. I just rebuilt the top end on my 4matics M103 with new valve guides, seals, etc.. and there was no other problems besides the expected valve guide wear. If you like spending money, use Mobile 1 and change it twice a week. You'll also get the thread started about "Will my engine leak more if I switch to synthetics?". That's always fun to watch.

HTH,

someguy

p-car993,

A suggestion from a fellow 4-Matic owner.

The 4-Matic transfer case tends to develop an internal leak from the hydraulic fluid side to the ATF side after 100 k or so. This leads to failure of the TC and a $3K to $5K R&R. I'm changing the TC ATF at least once a year and check for contamination. Inexpensive peace of mind. Aslo, check your hydraulic fluid level regularly. If you notice it going down change your TC ATF more often; e.g. every oil change. If (when) the TC fails you can avoid the expensive R&R by putting the 4-Matic in test mode and drive it as a 2WD. However I believe that the self leveling feature may not work anymore.

The 4-Matic is great on ice and snow but I don`t think you get much of them where you live.

Reno

__________________
Reno

'93 300E 4Matic
'98 Nissan Altima
'00 Yamaha Road Star Silverado

Gentlemen,

What are the significant differences between the four model years of the 124 4Matic (1990-1993)? Any particular year better than others? Any year best to avoid?

Thank you!

__________________
'94 E500 Anthracite
'92 300E 4Matic (donated to charity)
'90 300TE 4Matic

I have heard, (probably read it on this board some time ago), that 1993 is the year to avoid. From what I recall, (though you may want to get confirmation from others too), is that MB changed the wiring harness and engine from the earlier models and this created problems that the earlier cars don't have.