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  #1  
Old 01-31-2003, 09:15 PM
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More on 300E Diff & Subframe mounts?

I have searched all the info about repairing my rear suspension, I am wondering if anyone has had the "definative experience" conccerning all things in the back. 1) Should I stop fooling myself and replace ALL that could go wrong? 2) Does anyone have the "ultimate subframe bushing removal" hints? 2) Same for the Diff mounts? 3) What is the best way to relieve the rear springs? Removing the inner bolts and lowering or the outer? Any updated experiences would be great! Thanks Scott PS I found all this stuff after looking under my car while starting the Ft. Brakes! I am never gonn alook under there again.....
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2003, 02:50 PM
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And.......

Are the subframe mounts specific to VIN & Right or left side?
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  #3  
Old 02-01-2003, 09:31 PM
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China,

Unless you have appropiate the tools, it is going to be difficult to replace the sub-frame bushings yourself. Let the professionals do it. The links are a different story...You can "relieve" the rear springs by removing the outer bolts with a jack under it. Be very careful!
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  #4  
Old 02-01-2003, 09:49 PM
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My mechanic no longer does diff mounts or rear subframe mounts -- he works by himself, and he's semi-retired -- claims doing either job makes it almost impossible to work the next day!

Diff mounts are best removed with an air chisel, they almost never pull out of the subframe with a puller. Don't know about subframe mounts, but they look to be a serious pain, too.

I know what you mean about looking -- I've got to find out why I have serious torque steer on the 87 300D -- an expecting at least one link to be bad, am hoping it isn't bushings.

Peter
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2003, 07:39 PM
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China Clipper,

1. Replacing everything can take your car out of commission a while especially if you find that you don't have the tools you need or aren't comfortable fabricating your own. If you rebuilt everything in the rear & leave the front alone, looseness in the front may be more evident - when everything is loose, it all tends to "blend" together...

2. The subframe bushings are NO big deal. I have done them, twice in fact (on two different subframes). For the first subframe, I did one side at a time with the subframe in the car. For the second subframe, I removed the entire subframe from the car. No because I had to, because I felt like it. The bushings CAN be removed without special tools. I busted the seals on my floor jack in the process. Installation can probably be done too.

3. There is NO reason to relieve pressure on the springs if you are doing subframe mounts. Only if you are replacing the support joint in the bottom of the wheel carrier. Or, you are replacing the lower control arm or the spring/spring pads. There is very little pressure on them, so the danger is low. However, I did have the spring compressor when I did it. Removing the rear spring w/ the compressor still requires removing the lower control arm at one side.

For MANY models the left and right subframe bushings are the same. However, there are some models where they are not. And some modesl have higher bump stops than others. I recommend calling your parts supplier with your VIN# ready & if they tell you one size fits all call somebody else. The origianl parts were solid rubber & the newer ones are hydraulic (oil filled). Be sure to lubricate the bushings either with the MB sliding fluid or spray them with as much silicon as they will take. Otherwise, they will NOT fit properly (in the front).
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2003, 07:43 PM
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For the diff bushings, I used the pull/push tool without any problems. They are a very tight fit. Be sure to install them like the old ones came out. The parts L/R are the same, but the bushing itself is asymmetric - there is a relief on one side.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2003, 08:30 AM
LarryBible
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There could easily be terminology confusion here.

The subframe bushings are those that mount the subframe to the body. The differential sub frame bushings, mount the differential to the subframe.

The subframe bushings are no big deal. The differential subframe bushings require the puller, or as suggested, air chisel them out. If you air chisel them out, you will still need the puller to install them without destroying the sheet metal subframe.

Have a great day,
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2003, 01:43 PM
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What exactly does the subframe bushing do? My car seems very unstable in slight wind...there seems to be much lateral (side to side) movement. I thought it might be my pushing/pulling links, but my mechanic said they are fine. It's also not just the rear end that does this, but the whole car.

Thanks,
Matt
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2003, 02:04 PM
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Wind sensitivity is often alignment (toe-in).

Can also be too high tire pressure (> 36 psi) or incorrect amount of steering play.

Don't trust an indy to do the alignment, pay the dealer as they use the spreader bar and will do it right. Without the spreader, its very difficult for a regular tire shop to get it right.
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2003, 02:31 PM
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Brian right-on from my experience. I took the '91 and '95 to the local "super" tire store. Great people but couldn't get the alignment right. Repeatedly something was wrong. Burned off the outer edges brand new RE950s on both cars.

They have the latest and greatest laser racks etc .... took them to the dealer, and the first time, right. BTW, if the dealer has an old Bosch optical rack, run to a dealer that has a modern rack. Insist they use the spreader bar.

Once the alignment is right, unless you hit something you shouldn't have to align it again.

That's my expereince.

Haasman
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2003, 02:50 PM
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Yeah, I did have it aligned by my indie (who takes it to his tire supplier who does the alignment). He said it was the alignment, but it sure doesn't feel like it. It feels like the body of the car is separated from the wheels. If the car catches a gust of wind, it'll move laterally without moving the steering wheel. Then I go to move the steering wheel the opposite way of the car to correct, and it'll seem to catch and be overcorrected. This happens constantly with slight winds. Sound like alignment still?

Thanks.
Matt
94 e320
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2003, 03:10 PM
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Yes. Your car should NOT be that sensitive to side winds. I'd bet your front toe-in is out of spec (too small). This will also lead to the oversteer conditions you are describing. For comparison purposes (not likely your problem) if it were the opposite, too much toe-in, you'd be very stable on the road, experience understeer, and feather your tires.
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2003, 03:29 PM
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Have you ckecked the steering damper? Sometimes you get the same symptoms you are describing because of a worn out/failed damper.
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2003, 05:22 PM
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So steering damper and/or alignment. Not any bushings? So what are the symptoms of bad subframe bushings?

Thanks,
Matt
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2003, 05:41 PM
LarryBible
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As with any bushing, you push, prod and pry to see whether or not it is tight. If it is loose, it needs replacing.

Good luck,
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