Toyota Beats MB in one Category - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 03-26-2003, 06:57 AM

asiamood,

That "Nutty Fuel Distributor" is actually quite a nice piece of engineering. It is an excellent example of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) engineering. It may look complex on the outside, but the principle is simple and proven reliable.

The KE version is a mechanical system that has had electronic controls added. The original was almost purely mechanical and a really nice system.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

Have a great day,

joe p · #17 03-26-2003, 07:41 AM

I got ahold of a prelude with 212k on it yesterday, the car was louder on the road than my 96 Ram Diesel 4x4, everything in it rattled.

That car had rattles from parts that dont exsist in most cars.

Honda, Toyota and Mazda build good product but, the overall longevity of the interior and body structure is inferior. Not to mention the body tuning being poor as well. The germans are great inovaters of automotive technology, the japs are great perfectors of this technology. If we could just get Lexus to learn how to build back lit IC's.

Most of the late/mid 70's mb's were injected, most jap and domestic product was carb'd. (just a small example) In 84 to 86 most mb's had abs standard, most jap product didn't get it until the 90's, and I saw more issues with jap abs than I have ever seen with mb. (odds are they got that resolved by now) I do think the one place the japs excelled in is low emissions cly head technology. However, I never will forget that Mazda engineer who was talking up the new 1.5 Protege' motor in 94. Dude looked like Dan Quayle (deer in headlights) when asked "well that sounds cool but how does it idle?". I still grin everytime I think about that.

I tell ya what tho', you want a shock? Price a 22re reman.

Thing is fast approachiing a 617 crate motor price. Or go find a 95 626 4cly automatic owner who has paid for a tranny out of pocket at 60k. (poor people those thing were dropping like flies sprayed with ddt) I'll tell you one super tough, well tuned little car tho', the MX5 Miata's, that had to be the toughest thing I ever found with lugnuts on it once they got the crank bolt issue resolved. If you ever want a tough starter car for a 16YO, get a miata, I dont think I could break it.

Yeah, being a tech has some downsides, you see ALL that bad juju cars can produce and the heatache, financial pain and agony these damn things cause.

Joe

carman850 · #18 03-26-2003, 11:05 AM

We traded in our 1999 Toyota Camry Solara for the 92 400E, despite we bought it new and drove it only 20K km in 2 years, it only had better reliability than my 11 year old 400E, it indeed had quite a few problems as a new car:
Sunroof stuck
Power seat slide back and forth
Airbag warning light came on
Power rear view mirror stuck
Car pulled to left at highway speed (Defective strut tower)
Difficult to start when cold in Canadian winter.
Paint chipped.

At that time, I had an 97 Volvo 850, a 96 Ford Explorer with that Solara, I frequently compared these cars, that Toyota was built cheap, under the trunk carpet, you can find some rare materials that used to construct an automobile: hardboard and RTV sealant, Volvo's floors mats are all wool, and 3 times heavier than the ones on Solara. The leather on Solara was the thinnest of any cars I have seen, even the leather on my Explorer was twice thicker. It's almost impossible to drive it hard because the body rigidity was terrible, while Volvo was as sturdy as a mountain goat. I didn't like it and always drove other cars, that's why it had only 20k kms when I sold it.

I later sold the Volvo, owned it for 2 years, the only problem was the anti-rolling bar was broken (possibly because I drove it too hard).

I own 96 Explorer for 3 years, its old 4 litre V6 only cranks out 160 hp, but it has been the most reliable one, it's fully loaded and was abused, it frequently tows tent trailer for camping trips that can be as long as 6000 kms, the problems I had were: a heater control valve, an IAC valve and a day time running light module.

Japanese cars may be superior in reliability in the past, but as they have more new models, they too have more problems, like Toyota engine sludge and Honda transmission failure. Camry used to be the most reliable car in North American, but GM Impala and Buick LeSabre all have exceeded Camry and Accord in JD Power initial quality survey, in fact you can no longer find Camry in the JD Power's top ranking. American makes are catching up very quickly, from the data provided by Consumer Report and JD power, when Toyota and Honda are still leading in the quality category, take a look at the differences between all the manufactures, I can't remember the exact complaint numbers per 100 vehicles, but they are very close. For me as an end consumer, 100 problems or 110 problems per 100 vehicles means nothing to me, though it means a lot for the manufactures.

My 92 400E is the oldest and most UNreliable car I have ever owned, some of my friends thought I was crazy when I traded in the new Solara for the 10 year old Benz, but I don't regret it at all, because it's not an appliance, it's a serious automobile.

blackmercedes · #19 03-26-2003, 12:11 PM

What we choose to drive depends on many things, and CR reliability scores are only one factor.

I have driven several generations of Camrys at one time or another, whether it being a rental or a test drive. I hated them all. They seemed bullet-proof cars, but so what? Life's too short to drive something with the soul of a washing machine. My Porsche 911 Turbo was a terrible car, a terrible car I miss every summer Sunday morning.

Now, that said, Mercedes has a reputation for quality and reliability that it needs to preserve, and right now the perception that they have severe quality problems is growing.

Now, switch to someone that likes having a good car, but places different things at the top of the shopping list. My wife! She places more emphasis on reliability, and dumped her lemon E300 due to way too much time spent at the dealer. She won't even consider a Mercedes now. But, she doesn't have a Camry either. The Subie is no Mercedes or BMW, but it is interesting in it's own way, and seriously fun. Japanese makers like Subaru and Mazda are chipping away at those of us that want good build qualityu and reputation, but don't want to drive a Maytag.

Look at Nissan. If I were new car shopping, I'd have a tough time turning down the G35. It's $15,000 less than a comparable C320, and turns heads. It handles like a sports car, has tons of power, available six speed manny, RWD, and so on. IT's tkaing Mercedes head on, and MB better take notice. I see LOTS of those G35's lately.

It's a "shake-up" time in the car market, and someone will come out a winner. Mercedes will have to try VERY hard. No resting ont he rep of the Star anymore...

#20 03-26-2003, 01:02 PM

LarryBible,

I understand what you are saying and concur, one should not judge a book by its cover. The fuel distributor on my 300E is probably a good piece of engineering. Why do they cost so much? I've seen prices ranging from 700-1700 bucks.
I like my 300E very much, but its old. Lots of interior things need replacing, exhaust system needs a revamp, a paint job would be nice. I've already spend 2k on the climate control and the compressor is now leaking oil and the a/c isn't as cool. I haven't even done suspension stuff yet or a new tranny. If I keep it, it must be love, or stupidity. But the car runs great and the road feel is really good. My Camry is smooth and quiet but that front wheel drive torch on the steering wheel can be annoying when going into turns.

Greg Fragano · #21 03-26-2003, 02:24 PM

I drive a 1985 Toy. MR2 (220K), and I must say this thing is "bullet proof"! It handles great, is quick, and gets close to 35 MPG! The mid 80's Japanese cars (IMHO) were the best engineered cars that Japan ever produced. These years the Japanese were in there prime and had the money to throw into R&D. The 4AGE engine in these cars is arguably one of the most reliable, smooth and efficient engines ever produced. I also like the fact that it's a mid engine, rear wheel drive car. It has a perfect 50/50 weight ratio. Don't get me wrong, I love to drive my 88 560SL, but with the price of super unleaded these days I just take it out on the weekends!

Greg

jw-260E · #22 03-26-2003, 04:03 PM

My car had to have its fuel distributor replaced. Only time it has ever let us down.

It has never not started, never left me stranded, stalled, or so much as blinked.

The one time the 260 failed was a couple of years ago before it became solely my car. My sister was driving it, while I was away at college (couldn't easily have a car as a freshman.) The *lovely* folks at the local Chevron station raped the car. It was winter, and aparently, some snow got into the gas at the station.

When my dad took the car to a local garage, and had the gas tank drained after the gar sputtered and stalled several times, they found an mix of 1 part water to 2 parts gasoline. Which as we all know is an unworkable mixture.

$3000 or so later at the Von Hausen cartel down in Sacramento (exorbitantly expensive dealer service) "Bezedrine" was back on the road. The water had corroded and destroyed all kinds of stuff, including that super-expensive distributor.

Thankfully we were able to get the gas station to pay for the repairs.

Crownwayne · #23 03-27-2003, 06:17 AM

I think one of the reason Japanese A/C systems are easy to repair is, most are dealer installed options, rather than at the factory. Not so much on higher spec models, but for sure on my Tercel, it came packed in a box, and the dealer installed it in a day. Ever notice alot of Asian cars have a spot on the dash for A/C even if it's not installed.

Regarding general longevity, could it be because on the home market (Japan) cars have a specific life span according to legislation, and after a certain age they are no longer viable to keep on the road.

#24 03-27-2003, 07:14 AM

My wifes 4Runner did NOT have dealer installed air. Maybe in Canada they come that way, but in Texas you would be hard pressed to find a vehicle of ANY KIND on a new lot WITHOUT a/c. This was factory installed.

Have a great day,

joe p · #25 03-27-2003, 07:38 AM

I've hung a lot of a/c units on yoda and mazda over the years. However, most southwest dealers order them with a/c installed and depending on model and build site, it'll be either factory or "port" air. (most jap built cars have port, us built have factory.) The higer line cars, Camry, Cressida, Supra, 929, Millenia and such, will have factory air regardless of build site. Most trucks and some mini vans will have port. Heres a odd footnote, MPV's and the rolling egg looking Previa, were imported less rear seats and were classed as "station wagons" due to import tarriffs being lower on that class. The rear seating and a/c were port installed after the fact. (never will forget the Previa that showed up with leather front seats and cloth rears, whoops) I never did figure out how they explained a car with no rear seating but, rear a/c.

Most of these cars are configured from a engineering standpoint to be "set up" for port installed or dealer installed air, hence the simplicity of the design. However, doing this in conjunction with ACC and dual zone a/c is pretty much imposible. Also keep in mind most jap high line cars are based on a lower line platform (es300=camry, lx470=land bruiser and so on) Which means the simplicity of the platfom follows the line. Benz builds no such animal, their platforms are exclusive, they have however, started looking at this approach with the new c-class cars.

It has ben my experince that jap engines and transmissions (autos) will not reliable run as long as the german counterparts, its rare to see 300, 000 plus miles on a jap engine with no bottem end repairs and those I have seen had some issues that when torn down for rebuild required extensive machine work to get back into the ballpart on clearances. (the 200k plus 606 we are rebuilding still has crosshatch in the bore) Kep in mind there are exceptions to this such as the 1.6 twin cam mazda mill, the 2.2 camry mill and a few other notables. (of course these engines dont have the power to hurt themselves

)

One point to make here tho', is parts cost, for the most part I have found MB replacement parts (OE or aftermarket) to be less expensive than Japs stuff, ie, 103 chain tensioner about $68.00, t-belt tensioner for a MPV 3.0, $170.00 )

Joe

ktlimq · #26 01-30-2004, 11:59 PM

Sorry, nothing to do with A/C, but . . .

I know a ~15 year old Toyota Celica. About 150000 miles.

It makes problem after problem.

Once the owner and I was driving on the highway. I found steam coming from the hood.

I heard he went to a mechanic for repair.

Next time (about 2 moths after the steam problem), on the highway, the coolat temperature reached maximum.
Since we had an appointment, we had to run. He turned on the interior heater fully on to helpl cool the engine. His face and my face were cooked.