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  #1  
Old 12-21-2003, 12:27 AM
blackmercedes's Avatar
Just a guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,492
%#)(%&*$ FRAM filter...

Dad took his 190E 2.6 to a small shop in his rural town for some service. They did an oil change and used a Fram filter.

He arrived yesterday and we took his car for a drive. Cripes, the oil pressure was near zero at idle and barely hitting 2 bar when loaded.

On a hunch, I checked the filter. Sure enough, orange garbage. I happened to have a filter from way back when I had the car, so I quickly swapped the Fram off for an OE filter.

Pressure back to normal.

Anyone wonder why you don't buy cheap junk oil filters?
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2003, 12:30 AM
glmoy
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Wow,
I did not know that a bad filter would cause low bar readings.

This is a valuable post to members.

Thanks,
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2003, 12:42 AM
GermanStar's Avatar
Annelid wrangler
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 4,932
I assume you straightened him out concerning the proper use of parts from the fatherland. Cheap air filters can be just as bad...

Ron
http://germanstar.net
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2003, 01:31 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ventura CA USA
Posts: 38
please help us!

please cut that filter open and show us how the filter collapsed and impeded flow. please!

this could quiet the critics and skeptics
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2003, 02:10 AM
KNanthrup's Avatar
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Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 180
thats interesting to know

i know people who have used fram for years and never had problems, but yeah... thats not good
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2003, 06:09 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 229
If you do a search on google.com you will find many websites and people who are dissatified with FRAM. Before they used to make good stuff but then resorted to cheaper labor and cheaper materials for more profits. Hence the problem.

If you go to Parts America or some auto places, they have pictures or actual filters cut in half and you can see the diffence in the thickness, etc. of the filters.

Personally I always use genuine filters on ALL our cars. The price difference is very small and I am a perfectionist/purist/old school.
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2003, 10:55 AM
LarryBible
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I hope you cut apart the filter and do exploratory surgery. That would've been the first thing I would have done.

Fram is a company that makes the cheapest possible product and then floods the airwaves with gimmicks and catchy advertising to put forth a false image of high quality.

Thanks for the post.

Merry Christmas,
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2003, 11:27 AM
Jim Dandy's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 157
I'm not sure cutting open a filter really tells anyone a lot as far as what the filter can or cannot do. The only real data that I've been able to come up with on filters thus far is how they hold up to certain flow rates and pressures. The Fram-branded and Fram-produced filters seem prone to collapsing when used in high flow, high pressure applications.

I'd like to know what the micron rating is on Fram's filter material versus Mann's, its tensile strength, bursting pressure, etc. Those things are a little tough to gauge by simply cutting the filter open.

Last edited by Jim Dandy; 12-21-2003 at 12:57 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2003, 11:51 AM
gstigler
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Wow, I've got a Fram on my sable. Even though I'm trying to kill the car I'll get it out of there next week. I always had the impression that FRAM was a quality brand....my bad, I'll change my perception of them to the non-quality list.
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2003, 01:24 PM
*
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tiki Island Texas
Posts: 1,049
You might want to check out this link
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
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  #11  
Old 12-21-2003, 01:49 PM
Jim Dandy's Avatar
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That 'site doesn't prove anything. Just a guy cutting filters open in his garage. He even states that he is unable to test the actual filtration and flow characteristics of the filters.
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2003, 02:42 PM
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right

proves nothing.....

except the internal workings and perhaps quality or lack there of. in reading the evaluations the writer used the same criteria on each filter which in itself starts to show trends in manufacturing.

i would say it starts to show that on the lower end perhaps we have products manufactured using cost advantages (reductions) with performance being just satisfactory to the high end showing some engineering that may take them beyond just satisfactory.

i would say as a first step in product analysis not bad. gives us 2 or 3 categories to help us start the 2nd step of actual application analysis. real world testing with flows, pressure drops or head loss and other performance analysis.

IMHO i think the author made a good first step.
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2003, 02:52 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
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Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
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I don't know about studying anything, but I do know that in THIS instance, that cheap filter caused what could have been a severe problem. Low oil pressure is no joke.

I have NEVER had this problem with an OE filter. One thing I do notice is that the full Fram and the empty OE were about the same weight. hhhhmm....
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2003, 03:20 PM
Jim Dandy's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
right

proves nothing.....

except the internal workings and perhaps quality or lack there of. in reading the evaluations the writer used the same criteria on each filter which in itself starts to show trends in manufacturing.
It doesn't address the actual operating characteristics of the filter. Yeah, it's an entertaining website, but that's about it. Start showing some real numbers for filtration, various flow rates, pressures, temperatures, etc., and then color me impressed. Until then, I'm only slightly amused (that website has been around for a few years now).
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  #15  
Old 12-21-2003, 03:22 PM
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oil pressure

i'd like to offer up a piece of personal first hand experience with oil pressure. (to some it may sound like "What was I Thinking")

back in 1969 i ran a 1966 plymouth belvedere with a factory 426 hemi, light weight front end. this was the first year of that factory combination and the MOPAR factory type support. just saw on tv where a red one was valued at 75 to 100k $ restored. well i sold it to get married back in 1972 so i don't got the car but i still got the wife. anyway...

one day i was playing with the Hemi's oil pressure. the block used an external pump & filter so you could change springs and shim them up. i want to say i think i was using fram or one marked fomoco it was a FL1a or something to that effect. well i did my tune up on the spring and shimmed it about .075 with a washer. well we used to start the car with switches not keys so i had 3 switches in the dash. 1=starter 2=ignition 3=electric fuel pumps.

well i had my future wife in the car while i kept a close vigil on the engine compartment. so i had her turn the engine over and when the oil pressure gage reported pressure i had her flip switch 2. i'll never forget her facial expression. first second she was shaking her head up and down as we agreed then all of a sudden she got this expression on her face of panic, fear, or ??

anyway she looked up at me and her eyes must have been as big as dinner plates with this look of terror. well i finally caught on and gave her the kill sign.

nothing had broken, i could see no problem except i had about 10 quarts of oil on the garage floor. in my search of the problem it turned out to be the square o-ring on the filter body had blown out. thinking to myself well no problems it was a used filter (one that had been on for a few runs) i figured when i reinstalled it i may have greased it too much then tighten it too tight squishing it out. so i pulled a new filter off the self refilled the 12 quart pan with fresh Torco oil (in 69 we were paying upwards of 2 $ a quart). decided to try it again without changing the relief spring or the shim.

well to keep it short the very same thing happened again right down to the look of fear on my wife's face.

so how much pressure did that take? all i know is the SW gages went to 80psi and according to my wife the needle dissappeared somewhere east of 80. needless to say i removed the shim and replaced the relief spring.

conclusion: that type of oil filter can take 80+ psi without bursting however there is potential for oring seal failure at that pressure.

one more thing. what does it take to pickup 18 to 20 quarts of oil off a garage floor? answer = 2 80lbs bags of burnt rice hulls 2 shovels and a box of tsp.
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Craig

1972 350sl Red/Blk 117k
1988 420sel charcoal/Blk 140k
1987 420sel gold/tan 128k
See My Cars at:http://mysite.verizon.net/res0aytj/index.html

Pound it to fit then Paint it to match!

There is only First Place and Varying degrees of last!

Old age and deceit will overcome Youth and Enthusiasm every time!

Putting the square peg in the round hole is not hard... IF you do it fast enough!

Old enough to know better but stupid enough to do it anyway!
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