86 560SEL- located and considering - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cgoodwin · #16 02-13-2004, 03:08 AM

Are you enthusiasts or little old ladies? I have never heard such a load of ney saying, doom and gloom whiners!

You want a 560SEL and you found one that looks good and appears to be a bargain, GREAT! I am really happy for you! Try to curb the ENTHUSIASM we all feel with a little common sense and have the car looked at by a qualified MB tech, hopefully it will be what it appears and you will have found a steal! If not...Keep looking because they are out there.

Look at the service records (hopefully they are available form the seller, if not ask where the car was worked on and give them a call) and watch for head gasket leaks, 9 out of 10 leak (good bargaining point) but I would say that only 2 out of that nine do more than weep a little oil from the rear corners and the combustion chambers, oil passages and coolant are all free of contamination and can run that way for years. Timing chains are another item to watch for but really can be done, and I am sure have been done, by many on this board. Check the rear rams (shocks) for leaks ($300 ea +/-)and if they are ok, the accumulators, springs and front shocks are all relatively inexpensive. Rust is a death sentance. Look at the interior carefully, good leather is a must as is a good headliner, uncracked dash, working heat and sunroof as all these are VERY expensive to repair. Most importantly be realistic about what you (and your friends) can AND are willing to do, and what the project will cost to get it where you want it. If you have $12k to spend and you can get a 10 point car for that, just go and buy one, if you have $3500 spare right now and want a project and are willing to spend the (hypothetical) $5k more it will take to build your dream car, go for it..... But if the car is $3500 and will cost another $10k to end up with a $5k halfa$$ hack job, then what is the point?

I recently bought a 1988 560 SEL with 175k on the clock for $2200.00, it was a trade in at an associates car brokerage and frankly looked pretty crap. The paint was filthy and had been in a garage with cats walking across it and had not been washed or waxed in years, the windows had old tint which had gone "ghetto purple", neither of the front power seats worked, the sunroof was not working, some of the lower body trim was missing and the rear was sitting low. I put it on a lift and everything looked good underneath except the typical weeping head gaskets.

She drove very well and sounded good. I had the paint looked at by a detail shop and they assured me it was very salvagable (gloss black), the upolstery and headliner were in excellent condition. A good compression check (hot and cold), good leak down test, pressure checked the cooling system and examined the oil... All good. The AC blew cold and the climate control worked properly as tested with the service manual daignostics. The owners manual, first aid kit, tool kit, spare and jack were all still in the car (in the trunk I found the missing trim pieces). I bought the car.

The drivers seat had a motor drive cable where the housing had slipped from the crimped connector, and the passenger seat had ablown fuse - seats fixed. The sunroof had a bunch of broken plastic bits lodged in what was left of the works, but a local yard sold me a complete working sunroof assembly for $200 - That took 2 techs all day to disassemble and repair with parts from the new one. Tint removal, clean, buff out, polish and wax was another $150, the rear accumulators were about another $200.

I have about 1500 miles on the car now and could not be happier, she has only used 1/2 quart of oil, does not smoke and runs like a champ. I love the car as does everyone who sees it or rides in it. I love it so much that I am going for new springs, 17" rims and good tires - mostly because the acceleration is so impressive that I feel it needs to handle better so that I can get the tickets I bought it to avoid. I will most likely do the head gaskets in the next few months, not because I am worried about it but because I can and I hate knowing things are not as functioning properly.

The point of this is not to gloat or brag about the deal I got but to point out that deals are out there and all I hear on this board is the voice of doom with no balance of encouragement from fellow enthusiasts. You know exactly what car you want (this time) and that puts you in the top 1% of car buyers, the car you want is a 16 year old luxury car and that puts you in a good position to find a deal. In my experience these cars are either well maintained or really beaten badly, in Seattle where my shop is located most are pretty well taken car of and driven by older first or second owners (at least among my clients) who take car of thier cars then sell them on as they move into another Benz or no longer need a large 4 door.

Personally I think the w126 is one of the finest mercedes ever built. ABS, Air bag, Passenger safety cell, automatic seat belt tensioners and off-center impact protection - all introduced in the 126 which was designed to keep mercedes at the top of the luxury car market for 10 years to come. It did that and became an icon for other luxury car makers as well as automobile safety designers. The styling is classicly attractive yet contemporary, almost timeless and the interior is easily the most comfortable of any car produced since. The W126 is, in my opinion, one of the best cars ever produced.

Good luck, watch your wallet and enjoy your quest as much as you will enjoy the car.... And don't listen to chicken little too much.

Chris

joe p · #17 02-13-2004, 07:41 AM

Want one? Tons of work just done, if I wanted a big car I'd keep it.

Joeshameless self plug

joe p · #18 02-13-2004, 07:49 AM

These cars are great, however, one can avalanche in a heartbeat. The one I've got for sale is a good example of that. We picked the car up by accident, looked ok but was off the radar due to age etc... Once I got into the car I found a odd mix of perfect stuff and really bad stuff. The mill was 90% dry but everything in the powersteering system was leaking. The rear ride height was way low but the cannonballs were fairly new. The front end was good and tight but the drivers seat was so bad spring wise the harness was cut for the backrest and heater. Had this been a "retail" fix up the bill would have run between 3500 and 5000 dollars. Closing in on the cars value. If left unattended the car would have been ready for the scrap heap in 5 to 10K. After some TLC and lots of hands on, it should be fine for 'nother100k or so. The trick to 126 cars is starting out with a solid base to work from, and starting with a solid car overall is much easier. The trick to keeping one is simple, fix it right after it breaks or fix it before it fails (in the case of t-chains etc..) and stay after it. If you let it start to slide you end up with what Steve was talking about, a beautiful POS.

Joe

stevebfl · #19 02-13-2004, 08:16 AM

I like Chris's attitude. The stories we tell of professional restoration are economic. They are the reason these hunk of machinery can be had for a song. There was never a better DIY car than the 126 body. Open and easy to work on. Basically simple electronics, really bullet-proof.

In the car I reviewed, the cost were for a couple real labor intensive jobs (trans might be beyond normal DIY but DIY offers alternatives) and a head work. 2-3000 in head work can look like a few hundred dollars to a DIY project and a lot of fun. Really well built motor that is very forgiving and needs few special tools.

There is a difference in a DIY project and a daily driver. There are different economics especially.

joe p · #20 02-13-2004, 12:40 PM

No doubt Steve. The first 117 engine I ever worked on beyond service work showed up as a failed DIY project. Everything but the block, crank and a/c compressor was in boxes in the trunk and backseat.

2 months later and a lot of new cuss words learned (I cussed that car in 3 languages, called in a buddy to teach me some german just for the occassion) You would have been hard pressed to tell it had ever been apart.

The guy thought going in that it would be cheaper to have it reassembled than having the job started from ground zero. (not the case)

6 months after that the tranny failed. Poor guy who bought it sold it to me at that point for less than the engine bill and bought a 123 car. (shrug) This was in '88. I built the trans and drove it for about a year, sold it for what I had in it and still see it every now and again (4 owners later) Car looks as good as it did when I sold it.

Joe

86560SEL · #21 02-13-2004, 10:58 PM

Oh, sorry if my topic sounded "whiney", or "gloomy". At any rate- thanks for the information!!!!!

I really want a 300SD turbo diesel and for some reason- when I see somone asking for advice on these- never hear many people say - "check head gaskets, check suspension, check this and that". Perhaps I would be better off buying a 300SD or some other diesel Mercedes, rather than a gasoline model. This 560SEL I was considering has 188K. 188K is nothing for a diesel Mercedes.

Since I have posted here last- I have found a local 85 300SD in VGC for $2995. I am going to check into it this week.

Quote:

Originally posted by cgoodwin
Are you enthusiasts or little old ladies? I have never heard such a load of ney saying, doom and gloom whiners!

You want a 560SEL and you found one that looks good and appears to be a bargain, GREAT! I am really happy for you! Try to curb the ENTHUSIASM we all feel with a little common sense and have the car looked at by a qualified MB tech, hopefully it will be what it appears and you will have found a steal! If not...Keep looking because they are out there.

Look at the service records (hopefully they are available form the seller, if not ask where the car was worked on and give them a call) and watch for head gasket leaks, 9 out of 10 leak (good bargaining point) but I would say that only 2 out of that nine do more than weep a little oil from the rear corners and the combustion chambers, oil passages and coolant are all free of contamination and can run that way for years. Timing chains are another item to watch for but really can be done, and I am sure have been done, by many on this board. Check the rear rams (shocks) for leaks ($300 ea +/-)and if they are ok, the accumulators, springs and front shocks are all relatively inexpensive. Rust is a death sentance. Look at the interior carefully, good leather is a must as is a good headliner, uncracked dash, working heat and sunroof as all these are VERY expensive to repair. Most importantly be realistic about what you (and your friends) can AND are willing to do, and what the project will cost to get it where you want it. If you have $12k to spend and you can get a 10 point car for that, just go and buy one, if you have $3500 spare right now and want a project and are willing to spend the (hypothetical) $5k more it will take to build your dream car, go for it..... But if the car is $3500 and will cost another $10k to end up with a $5k halfa$$ hack job, then what is the point?

I recently bought a 1988 560 SEL with 175k on the clock for $2200.00, it was a trade in at an associates car brokerage and frankly looked pretty crap. The paint was filthy and had been in a garage with cats walking across it and had not been washed or waxed in years, the windows had old tint which had gone "ghetto purple", neither of the front power seats worked, the sunroof was not working, some of the lower body trim was missing and the rear was sitting low. I put it on a lift and everything looked good underneath except the typical weeping head gaskets.

She drove very well and sounded good. I had the paint looked at by a detail shop and they assured me it was very salvagable (gloss black), the upolstery and headliner were in excellent condition. A good compression check (hot and cold), good leak down test, pressure checked the cooling system and examined the oil... All good. The AC blew cold and the climate control worked properly as tested with the service manual daignostics. The owners manual, first aid kit, tool kit, spare and jack were all still in the car (in the trunk I found the missing trim pieces). I bought the car.

The drivers seat had a motor drive cable where the housing had slipped from the crimped connector, and the passenger seat had ablown fuse - seats fixed. The sunroof had a bunch of broken plastic bits lodged in what was left of the works, but a local yard sold me a complete working sunroof assembly for $200 - That took 2 techs all day to disassemble and repair with parts from the new one. Tint removal, clean, buff out, polish and wax was another $150, the rear accumulators were about another $200.

I have about 1500 miles on the car now and could not be happier, she has only used 1/2 quart of oil, does not smoke and runs like a champ. I love the car as does everyone who sees it or rides in it. I love it so much that I am going for new springs, 17" rims and good tires - mostly because the acceleration is so impressive that I feel it needs to handle better so that I can get the tickets I bought it to avoid. I will most likely do the head gaskets in the next few months, not because I am worried about it but because I can and I hate knowing things are not as functioning properly.

The point of this is not to gloat or brag about the deal I got but to point out that deals are out there and all I hear on this board is the voice of doom with no balance of encouragement from fellow enthusiasts. You know exactly what car you want (this time) and that puts you in the top 1% of car buyers, the car you want is a 16 year old luxury car and that puts you in a good position to find a deal. In my experience these cars are either well maintained or really beaten badly, in Seattle where my shop is located most are pretty well taken car of and driven by older first or second owners (at least among my clients) who take car of thier cars then sell them on as they move into another Benz or no longer need a large 4 door.

Personally I think the w126 is one of the finest mercedes ever built. ABS, Air bag, Passenger safety cell, automatic seat belt tensioners and off-center impact protection - all introduced in the 126 which was designed to keep mercedes at the top of the luxury car market for 10 years to come. It did that and became an icon for other luxury car makers as well as automobile safety designers. The styling is classicly attractive yet contemporary, almost timeless and the interior is easily the most comfortable of any car produced since. The W126 is, in my opinion, one of the best cars ever produced.

Good luck, watch your wallet and enjoy your quest as much as you will enjoy the car.... And don't listen to chicken little too much.

Chris

86560SEL · #22 04-19-2004, 12:45 AM

Believe it or not, they just marked the car down to $2500. I think I will re-consider. Hopefully nothing is wrong with it. I still have to check on that 85 300SD first though.

I also found a 1991 420SEL at the same carlot that I bought my Lexus at. It has 139K and it in MINT condition for $5995. That may be the better deal. Thanks again.

190edude · #23 04-30-2004, 02:38 PM

I spent the 200 bucks for the Mercedes dealer inspection before I bought my 190 and found that that car had only been in for repair on 3 occassions. The only thing that they recrommended I replace was the heater fan and the fan speed select. The bearings were shot in the fan and it rattled and the speed control had a piece broken in the internals and could not be fixed.
Well worth the 200 for peace of mind.

albert champion · #24 04-30-2004, 07:30 PM

if you really want one of these models in first class shape, you might go to this site.

bob hatch knows his mercs and only sells good ones.

http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sales/vintage

WANT '71 280SEL · #25 04-30-2004, 11:16 PM

How did the inspection go for the 560 that was just marked down? It is the 560 you were talking about the price being lowered? If you didn't want it, my dad may be interested. Let me know what you think please.
Thanks
David

EC93SE · #26 05-02-2004, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by albert champion
if you really want one of these models in first class shape, you might go to this site.

bob hatch knows his mercs and only sells good ones.

http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sales/vintage

I'm sure Hatch knows his Mercs and only sells good ones, but the 300SE and the 420SEL on his website were quoted to me at 22K and 23K respectively when I called about them. Both cars had mileage around 50K if I remember correctly. These cars have been on the website for about 18 months so far and haven't sold. I guess there are some buyers that are looking for a mint 126 that wouldn't bat an eye at that price but they haven't stepped up to the plate as of yet. I'm sure many of us can agree that a 100K mile example can be found for 1/3 of that price for a near mint car. I really like the 126 cars, but not enough to pay 10-15K over retail. Just my opinion.

86560SEL · #27 06-21-2004, 08:12 PM

Well, to update even further- the car has been marked down drastically, but it has a problem- the transmission. I thought I would call again today, to see if it was even lower than $2500 and I was amazed when the woman said they was asking $1000.

I assumed that something had been found wrong with it- and it had. She said it needed transmission "work". She said it was slipping going into 2nd gear. I asked her about the engine again and she said it run good, but would not start now, because they stupidly (is that even a word? lol) let it run out of gas.

The way she was talking, if I wanted to hear the engine, then bring some gas in a fuel can.

I knew that a transmission rebuild would be $$$$. I called a couple of local transmission shops. One said $1500-$1800 and one said $1000 or higher, depending upon what was wrong.

The car has 188K, if I recall. The body is 100% rust free w/no or very minor dents and the interior is in VGC, but the front seats do have some cracks. The color really distracts from the car, as it is a light yellow color. I personally would like for it to be black, white, gold or blue, but I like the styling of these cars. Even needing the transmission work, is this car worth this? I really do not need it, but it seems like a good deal. If I get it, I may resell or keep it, depending upon how good of a car it seems. If I recall- I think I have seen these cars on e-bay in rather poor shape selling for well over $1000. Would it be cheaper to install a used transmission from another 560SEL? Anyone else ever have a transmission rebuilt on a 560SEL, or know what the problem on this car may be? Thanks for any additional information/advice.

Hatterasguy · #28 06-21-2004, 09:03 PM

Rebuilt transmissions retail for $1195 plus shipping. Pull it yourself, it looks like a simple job on my SDL. Their is a near mint 1989 560SEL for sale down the street from me. They want $8995 but I bet you could get it for $6500-$7000. But if the one your looking at is nice; say $1000 for the car plus $1195 for the trans plus $250 for new flex discs and trans mount and you could have a real nice car. Throw in a timeing chain if there is no record of that getting done. So $2450 for a 560 with a new trans, say $3000 after doing all of the old car stuff belts, hoses, filters, etc. If you do the work yourself the numbers work.

86560SEL · #29 06-21-2004, 11:10 PM

Thanks Hattaras- where can these transmissions be bought? I would not be able to take it out myself. I am guessing that after I paid shipping and paid to have it installed- it may be cheaper just to have it rebuilt.... what do you think? One place said $1000 or more, depending upon the problem and another said $1500-$1800. The car is in good shape appearance wise. I still have no idea on how well the engine itself actually runs, since I have never heard it, nor the conditions of the other components, such as steering, suspension, electrical, etc. Hopefully all of that is in good conditions. The car may even be able to be purchased for even less than $1000- since the car was given to them, they have nothing to lose. :p I am guessing if I offered the woman about $700- she may accept. I did check KBB and Edmunds and it says even in fair to rough condition, that the car is worth $1400- but you cannot always go by these price guides. Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hatterasguy
Rebuilt transmissions retail for $1195 plus shipping. Pull it yourself, it looks like a simple job on my SDL. Their is a near mint 1989 560SEL for sale down the street from me. They want $8995 but I bet you could get it for $6500-$7000. But if the one your looking at is nice; say $1000 for the car plus $1195 for the trans plus $250 for new flex discs and trans mount and you could have a real nice car. Throw in a timeing chain if there is no record of that getting done. So $2450 for a 560 with a new trans, say $3000 after doing all of the old car stuff belts, hoses, filters, etc. If you do the work yourself the numbers work.

86560SEL · #30 06-22-2004, 12:21 AM

Sorry for the delay- If I pass on the car, would your father still be interested in it, even needing the transmission work for $1000?
I may pass on it still yet, as like I said, I really do not need it. I am actually wanting a 81-85 300SD (much more economical) to replace my current work car (92 Buick).

Quote:

Originally posted by WANT '71 280SEL
How did the inspection go for the 560 that was just marked down? It is the 560 you were talking about the price being lowered? If you didn't want it, my dad may be interested. Let me know what you think please.
Thanks
David