1. i know that there have been a series of posts on this topic. and i have read them all.

what i would like to learn is this....is there a simple, replacement mirror[such as the ones in my 116, 126, 124] available for this vehicle[perhaps in the euro market]?

all ears?

2. just for the hell of it, i took this low mileage[20,300 when sold as a starmarked vehicle eleven months ago - now 23,900] 1997 c140 to the new dealer in metro houston where the individual that i have worked with for years took charge of the service department. i took the car there because i had a few other starmark warranty issues, but there were two issues that i wanted a "friendly" to address with mbusa since i viewed them as potentially rejectable as starmarkable claims.

a.] one issue was seats. both driver's and passenger's had seatbacks that had stopped being forward tiltable. oddly enough, after battery fried and was replaced, driver's seat became operable again. passenger's seatback remained immovable.

dealer called me today to advise me that the problem was one of cable adjustment - mbusa considered this a "trim" issue - not claimable as a starmark warranty.

anyone have any opinions on that call?

b.] the other issue was the floppy inside rear view mirror. the replacement of that mirror was also denied.

benz considers that a "trim" item, also.

well, i wonder what dot and the nhtsa think about rear view mirrors. i have always considered them the most basic level of safety equipment. to my mind, if rear view mirrors are trim items, then so must be bumpers and sodium azide bags.

i would like to take this issue up with someone at the top at mbusa. any suggestions?

all ears,

albert,
As a tech working on some starmark cars I hear "If the part is not listed then the part is not covered" I would first check the paper work and see if the part is listed.

__________________
Paul

well, you may be a tech at a m-b dealer, but i question your understanding of the starmark process.

as i understand it, starmark claims are filed in advance over the net for approval before work is conducted. mbusa then responds almost instanteously to approve or deny.

in the instance of this c140, the non movable seat backs and floopy rear view mirror were my major claims. both were denied by mbusa - trim items was their escape clause.

however, because this new dealer installed a state of the art alignment rack and bay, i requested that the c140 have its alignment checked. as it was reported to me, problems were found with bushings, etc. now, all of these bits will be replaced gratis under the terms of the starmark warranty.

what makes this most odd is that i requested the alignment check as an afterthought when my tour of the facilities revealed this alignment bay. i had no handling issues.

but the defective operation issues that i did have went uncovered by mbusa.

do you see something wrong with this picture?

i sure do. owner-identified problems are denied as trim exclusions[and i don't thin that is correct]. yet suspension problems that get caught as an afterthought, that the owner has not declared, are covered. hmmmmmm.

makes me wonder - was there a factory campaign at some point since 1997 to correct suspension component deficiencies?

did the starmark selling dealer fail to bring this vehicle up to campaign levels?

nothing would surprise me now.

all ears.

Starmark will not cover any interior items. I purchased a 97 E320 in 01 under the starmark program and have tried many times to get different dealers to replace the interior pieces to no luck.

On the other note, the primary dealer I deal with has replaced many items that were not brought up by me. I really have no reasons to complain. My near 100k mile car has gotten an entire new front end, new rear shocks, head gasket, rear main seal, motor mounts, MAS, and countless other items replaced under the Starmark warranty without me saying a word. I basically have a mechnically new car at this point.

__________________
1997 E320

Albert,

I had a similar issue with my 02 Honda which was out of warranty but under my extended coverage. The rear seat wouldn't fold forward on one side and I brought this up to the dealer. The dealer checked with Honda's extended warranty and said they wouldn't cover it. I sent a letter to Honda NA the day after and received a call in two weeks saying they'll apply a $100 credit towards my bill to get it fixed.

My point: Try sending a letter explaining your previous good experiences with MB's and how many vehicles you've purchased and plan to purchase. If they still refuse then clearly they're not interested in your business. If you like email me and I'll send you a copy of the letter.

__________________
Afshin

Current:
02 C32 AMG

Previous:
92 500E
84 190E 2.3 5 Spd

Albert,
I suggested you check your paperwork.

Page 16 of the Owner's Service and Warranty Information
Starmark Pre-Owned Limited Warranty Booklet
If a part is not listed, it is not covered

Page 21, Items which are not covered by these warranties.

1) All items not specifically indentified as covered by the Starmark Limited Warranty blah------ blah ------blah-------- any paint or trim items.


Page18 specifically lists the suspension bushings as a covered item.

Have a nice day and enjoy your coupe

__________________
Paul

don't misunderstand,

this little mirror problem existed with this car when i picked it up from the m-b dealer in san antonio. in my view, when that dealer starmarked that car, they were obliged to correct the deficiencies in that mirror. i didn't notice the mirror problem until after my check had cleared and i was sitting in the car with the m-b sales person getting my pre-flight. i watched him gulp when i reached up to adjust the mirror, which could not be adjusted. this was 1530hrs on a friday and i could have left the car for this deficiency to be corrected and flown back to houston, but i accepted the salesman's promise to furnish me a new mirror.

little did i imagine that such a mirror was priced at close to a grand. and that the dealer was going to forget me. and that mbusa customer service honcho, a mr paul juron, was going to duck my emails, crr letters, and telephone calls.

it will be never when i purchase another daimler-benz product.

and though the car was starmarked, and i knew that there were some exclusions, i would never have imagined that such an important bit of safety equipment would be excluded. as i said previously, do you think that nhtsa and dot consider rear view mirrors trim items? for m-b to identify a rear view mirror as a "trim" item is a monstrous bit of fraud. imho.

as to the seatbacks, it was funny, but they functioned perfectly when i picked up this car in san antonio. but, by the time i reached houston, a few hours later, they had stopped working.

so sad, albert, said the dealer. what they meant was, "we really didn't inspect this car very thoroughly because it had so few miles and we had serviced it on those few occasions[3] when it came into our shop for service. we assumed that everything was in perfect working order...and we starmarked it."

but as i have now learned, starmarking is a good marketing program that will screw purchasers if the problem areas involve "trim". even "trim" components that the dealer should have caught during the examination of this car prior to starmarking it.

i can afford this relatively cheapskate level of screwing the purchaser of a starmarked benz, but mbusa is penny wise and pound foolish to allow this to be the norm for their starmark program. it leaves a bad taste.

quite candidly, i am not convinced that the suspension components were replaced. even needed to be replaced. consider, when i acquired the car, it had 20,300 miles on it. and had been inspected by the dealer and starmarked. i put 3,000 miles on it from april 2003-june 2003, then put it up in my air-conditioned garage while i left the country.

oh, and after i purchased it and returned to houston, and before i put it up, my indy and i "lifted" it and inspected the underbits. we found no suspension problems.

my indy and i put it up before i took it to the dealer. inspected it and we saw no problems.

had i not been given a tour of the shop of this new m-b dealer, and seen its alignment bay, i would not have requested an alignment. and had this coupe not been put up on the alignment rack, the purported suspension component flaws would not have been noticed. and though i wasn't charged for the suspension parts and the labor to replace them, i was charged for the alignment.

next week, my indy and i are going to "lift" this coupe. just to see if the m-b dealer really replaced any suspension components.

my suspicions are, the suspension component replacements under starmark were fraudulent. but sometime late next week, i shall let you know what we find.

believe me when i tell you that i own a number of benzes. the suspension flaws that this m-b dealer says existed confound me. knowing what i know about how intimately i know my vehicles, i found it difficult to accept that this car had such problems without me suspecting. or me and my indy knowing.


oh, and lastly, the san antonio m-b dealer finally decided to become honorable. seems that my indy buys a lot of parts from them. he put it to them that they owed me a new inside rear view mirror. though they hemmed and hawed and dragged their feet for months, they have shipped my indy a new mirror for this car.

install costs will be on me, but what the hell. in fact, i would prefer my indy do the job than the clowns that work for m-b dealers.

so it goes, the joys of dealing with the new daimler-benz.

i could say more, but i think you get my point.


albert champion

1979 6.9[52k]
1986 560sel[254k]
1987 560sec[90k]
1995 e320cab[13k]

wow. albert, you are an angry man. just wanted to clarify the starmark issue, there is no sending off for approval to MB before starting a repair. there is a list we have, and if the item in question is on the list (specifically mentioned) then it is covered. good luck with all that racket...

well, that is interesting. why do you think that the vp of service of a benz dealership, along with his service manager, would have told me the story that they told me... about putting the starmark claim into the mbusa system and receiving immediate acceptance or rejection via computer?

Where is the salesman in all this? He saw the problem and promised you to have it addressed. It sounds like you went up his chain of command and didn't get his promise fulfilled. Until the salesman or his supiors make good on his promise, they are simply liars. How do they sleep at night?

I had something simliar happend to me when I bought the E320 Starmarked from a dealer. Same salesman promise... after I got back to town from an unrelated trip and followed up with him and his manager, I got the major run around.

I'm an educated, professional person, but I totally lost my cool that day. I drove down there and had it out with them. They just don't understand that it's not honorable to lie and jerk folks around wasting their time. The owner of the establishment and about twenty of his potential customers have never herd so many four-letter words in less than a minute. I almost decked the sales manager. I actually thought they were going to call the police.... I was so pissed off that I didn't even care. The gall and arrogance of those bastards.... I think they actually get off living up to the stereotype associated with their profession.

I was quite surprised... the dealership backed down and lived up to their original promise.

I feel your pain.

__________________
Michael

1988 300 SL (5 Speed)
1994 E320 Wagon
1997 C230

I bet you can get some participation with your local dealer(provoded you have been giving him a substantial $$ of business)
I have had my dealer chip in before on some issues.I think they have a certain amount of goodwill in their budgets that they can use every month)for their good customers.
I would try that route.
By the way is the mirror moving electrically as it should and moving with the memory seats?


good luck


Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

Why was the salesman trying to move the mirror manually...I heard that was a big no no in a 140.....I was told you only move the mirror eleitrically with the switch


and I also heard that mirror was $800.00 to fix



again good luck


Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

apparently there was a time when the inside rear view mirror of a 140 was unadjusted by human hands. but by 1997, that had changed. the mirror was as fragile as its predecessor, but had to be manually adjusted.

you can look it up in this site's search engine.

and it is a bad benz story. when it was electrical, it cost about grand. when it went manual, the price was not reduced.

i think this must be an instance of benz trying to recapture its 140 losses.

all in all, it is situations like this that leave me with a very big bad taste in my mouth for the house of schrempp[sic].

well I am not sure about the mirror in 1997 and later models...BUT again In can't imagine with the long history of automobiles purchsed and service at the dealer in Houston thay they will not take care of all of that or at least some it under goodwill.
The dealer in Columbus I use(who I didn't buy the car from) has participated in a couple of repiars to defray my costs.Although I do have to say he got $20,000 worth of warranty work on the car at a time when it was still covered.
I actually test drove a 1997 S500 coupe with about 30 miles a bout a month ago...nice car ...but a couple of things
1.The car blew a fuse(?) during the test drive and neither seats or mirrors worked any more
2. There was an invoice in the car where the original owner had spent $5200 on a repair..of which almost $3000 was for some engine work on the top end of the engine...this work was done at 26K miles at MB of Miami where the car was purchased.

but I have seen some of these coupes pretty cheap(relative to what they were new)...I saw an S600 coupe the other day doe for 27K with 40K miles



Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

Albert, in 1999 when I bought our 1992 300CE (with a Starmark Component Warranty BTW) the salesman gave me a written IOU listing a couple of things that I didn't receive on delivery. One was the set of 15-hole wheels which originally came with the car (the PO had updated to 8-hole wheels) that I picked up later. In the future insist on a promise in writing.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle