I am starting to wonder what the response is in Europe, since their cars are exposed to winter conditions as well. Granted they don't hold on to their cars as long as we do, but their inspection programs are much more rigid.

Mine is finally fixed. MBUSA paid half($770) and it took five weeks. They replaced the frame from the firewall to the bumper.

If you have a W210 PLEASE check your perches because you could be KILLED if they give way on the road!! It is a pain but I implore you to get it checked!! The wheel and spring COLLAPSE and cause one side of the fromt to LOCK UP; you can imagine the loss of control!! DO NOT PUT IT OFF you may save the lives of your family or other innocent drivers. I cannot believe that MB is not RECALLING these cars! Sure it's costly but so is a wrongful death suit - could be hundreds of millions if the car hits a schoolbus for instance! They will have to recall these cars at some point but in the meantime people will DIE!

I cannot overstate the importance of getting YOUR car checked!! PLEASE!!

I can believe it. They way they figure it is just like Ford with their TFI issue. Lets say it happens 100 times. Out of that, 10 are severe and 20 are less severe and the rest are non issues. They figure out the total probable cost and if it doesn't exceed their cost to fix every one on the street, they will not do it. So, enough people have to get hurt and dead, sue and win enough money before it becomes an issue. It is all a numbers game. What's so hard to believe about it?

My 99 E320 has 82k miles. After reading this thread, I sort of drove in fear until I could inspect the spring perches this past weekend.

I just want to be sure I'm doing the right thing, but a visual inspection of the perches shows absolutely nothing. The rubberized coating and paint is completly intact, there isn't the slight notion of a problem. Aside from pulling it all apart including the springs, is there anything I should be able to see that indicates a problem with rust?

I do think they are a bit flimsy, design-wise, but they look ok to me.

Does anyone know what the dealer does when they inspect, other than look at them?

It's my understanding that they all look perfect until they fail, and only then do you see the rust underneath.

All you can do as a propholactic is to ensure that they're sealed.

I am going to take it to the dealer anyway soon to get the brake fluid flushed and changed. I'll ask them to inspect it and see what they have to say.

That is not true. What happens most often is that the spring perch fails a visual inspection and shows corrosion/rust. Catastrophic failure is rare, a repair warranted by visible rust/corrosion is not.
Paul
_______
98 E300

Not a sign of any corrosion on my spring perches, and this is a car driven in the north of England, a very rainy and salty place indeed. They're completely clean, as is a fair bit of the underside of the car. 1997 W210 saloon, with 167 000 miles on the clock.

The only signs of corrosion on the chassis (apart from external bodywork) are on the usual places you'd find on any other car - the odd nut/bolt, fixing, rod ends, theres also a fair bit of rust on the shockers but all thats happening is the black painted finish is flaking off. They still work fine.

I'm a bit concerned that people think this is such a major safety issue - obviously you don't want a collapse while driving, but I'd rather have one of these collapse while driving, than suffer a rear tyre blowout. I know which is more dangerous, and which is more common.

Hmmm
 

Many of these cars are driven at 90-100 miles per hour = 144.841 KPH to 160.9344 KPH every day for an average of 23,000 miles per year = 37014.91 kilometers per year.
A tire failure is easier to control than a wheel that has retracted into full contact with the fender = the car resting upon the sub frame at speed...

In Michigan, USA each winter there are roughly 800,000 tons of salt spread upon our roads per year.:eek:
I live and drive around Detroit, it is common for a black vehicle to turn white from salt coating in winter.:(
Any break in the weld seam sealer will allow this highly corrosive/intrusive slime to enter, and begin eating metal from inside out..:(

I think I was wondering if it was best to just scrape the coating off, have someone run a welder and weld it with a bead instead of the spot welds. Not just any hack but a professional body shop or welder.

If you ask a professional bodyman to do it, and he doesn't refuse, you probably need to find someone else.

There's a reason that car bodies aren't welded solid at all the seams.

So what would be the best way to strengthen it? If you rip the perches out and put in the new ones, you still have to weld it.

Answer
 

Grind clean the old spot weld, spot weld five points on the new perch, clean and seal all possible corrosion access to the new spot weld.

Extreme cleaning, before/during and after welding.
Extreme attention to sealing any possible corrosion access.



Have a great day.

The old perch's don't just fail, rust has to get at them. The 4 spot welds will hold it on for the life of the car provided they don't rust.

I almost wonder if it would be better to scrape all the undercoating away, and then just spray it with that wax undercoating and keep an eye on it. That stupid rubber undercoating is what's causing these problems. MB didn't use much on the W210, they cheaped out. Unlike the undersides of the W140/W126 ect which are liberaly coated in the stuff.

Is there a way to strengthen the existing one without removing it?

This is related to why spot-welds are used in the first place. The engineers do finite-element analysis to approximate the flex in the body parts, to determine and mitigate the effects of flex in the parts. The flex itself cannot be eliminated.

If you make the perch stiffer than it is supposed to be, or change how it's welded to the body, you may break something else after enough flex cycles.

Answer
 

NO, sorry for the negative answer, however I have looked for any alternative for years and found none.

Very few (in Michigan roughly one in four) show any obvious rust.

My automatic reaction to a W210 coming in for service is to measure the curb height, check the mount angle of the perch, and look for broken spring coils.

What a coincidence. I just saw a 210 at the shop getting the perch done. Here is what happened. The driver heard a "bang" sound and had issues with steering at slow speeds. Anyways, they usually take it to the body shop but somehow they did it at the service facility today.

The didn't weld it on. They riveted it.

Holy cheesy repair method Batman!:eek: I could understand the possible use of stainless hardware such as M10 or M12 bolts as secondary mounting devices to the welds, but rivets? I'm glad that wasn't my E320 you observed sitting up on that rack.:(

Chris

What is wrong with those rivets? Do you know how it is done? The broke 3 industrial riveters doing it. Then they borrowed the Body Shop's electric gun and it worked but it had to be recharged very often. Those are thick heavy rivets not the small ones you get at Home Depot.

They are not doing any more till they get another rivet gun that is hydraucually actuated.

Hi guys, I know I don't check up on tech stuff anymore, but a suggestion I thought I did make awhile back, and maybe Hunter can follow up on it. The 210 4Matic does have a reinforcement brace over the tower or perch, maybe this could be retrofitted to a 2wd (2Matic?) 210 perch???
Anyone ever see a 4Matic perch break???
Gilly

I would be very apprehensive about employing rivets on this particular type of repair because of the low amount of surface area that they rely on and their tendency to work loose from impacts and vibration over time. One must wonder if the engineers that originally designed the vehicle would approve of such techniques.

Chris

The procedure in WIS says to use rivets. One can only assume that the engineers thought it was a better solution than spot-welds, which aren't much harder to apply than rivets.

The perch is removed and the area sanded down. Then they will use the new perches which have a larger mounting area and a bunch of rivets that are thick.,

Curiousity forced me to make a trip out to the garage to see how other automakers secure their spring perches to the subframe. Upon inspection of my 1990 Mustang GT I found that Ford both riveted and welded the upper section that supports the front coils springs. Our BMW was only welded though.

Let's hope (for that owner's sake) that those rivets hold up better than the original spot welds did!

Chris

The MB perch design has several defects. The metal is only .045". Based on 10% rule you could only have .0022" rust on both sides. That's less than the thickness of a piece of paper. The perch is a stamped part which creates serious stresses in the metal that accelerate corrosion. MB put the spring inboard to reduce sprung mass so that the force on the spring and perch is 4 times the weight on the tire. The 4 spot welds used distroy any antirust treatment on the parent metal. The thinnest metal is around the spot welds. I just got back from the EAA Fly In at Oshkosh. Why do you think 99% of airplane metal is connected with rivets and not welds? MB let a gap between the wheel well and the Perch so that salt can get down behind it. The sealant they used was too thick and only created a cavity for the salt to get trapped in. It is impossible to inspect the part to determine if it is safe by eye. MB has not fixed my 1998 yet nor has MB provided the dealer with how to fix it. I think that I would feel safer if they used rivets. In aviation, we dip the rivets in epoxy before they are installed.

i'm bringing this topic back up top... because now i'm scuuured to buy this '98 e320w.

i've read cases where MBUSA has warranteed the damage, and other cases where they didn't. is the decision mostly based on mileage? and if i do have a 135K car, i'd be totally SOL? I was under the impression that they'd repair this under rust protection which would be at least a 10 year warranty? hence i didn't worry about it too much... i mean, the car would be a 3rd car, and a beater, i wouldn't mind if it goes out of commission 30+ days...

I had the local MB rep check out my car a couple months back. Had 188k on the car and they said no thanks. It is from wear and tear on an almost 10 year old vehicle. My undercarriage is in excellent condition, considering it came from a northern climate. there is a small rust spot on the passenger rear lower control arm, the catalytic convertor and the passenger front spring perch. The mechanics had a look of disbelief, that the car was from the north. My car was in excellent condition on top of that. I explained to the rep that this is unacceptable and she said thanks but no thanks to my claim. Got a letter from MB stating the same. She recommended a local shop to handle it though. If I didn't love the car so much I would have dumped it a long time ago. F*** MB with their corrosion warranty crap. Just my $0.02

so.... did anyone ever contact the NHTA? State Attorney General? BBB? Anyone ever get documentation for Canada? You'd think if there was a recall up there there would be some govermental record of it that we could pass along to agencies around here? Anyone ever take MB to small claims court about it?

Answer:
 

:confused: Many have reported this issue, it is well documented.

W210 DANGEROUS FLAW please read
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/bodywork-repair-paint-tools-tips-tricks/147997-w210-dangerous-flaw-please-read-crosslinked-post-1-all-topic-data.html

Spring Perch
 

W124 SPRING PERCH = Front Spring Bracing
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-parts-reference-library/182374-w124-spring-perch-%3D-front-spring-bracing.html


W202 SPRING PERCH = Front Spring Bracing
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-parts-reference-library/182419-w202-spring-perch-%3D-front-spring-bracing.html


W210 SPRING PERCH = Front Spring Bracing
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-parts-reference-library/182420-w210-spring-perch-%3D-front-spring-bracing.html





ALL PART QUESTIONS ARE WELCOME:

Just adding to the info already here.

On the spring perch issue, I just got a fax of all the old service records for my E430 (I recently purchased it, I am the third owner). Car was serviced regularly at the MB dealer in Toronto, Canada.

In 2002, the car had a service performed - "Check and repair both seam sealer on front spring support". There is a dealer 'op code' of 023411 listed for this service. There is also a labor amount listed but it has been blacked out since I was not the owner at that time.

So, mine have been inpected and repaired if required. Good to know. Sad that this is required on such a major structural component.

spring perch
 

Thinking of looking at a local 1996 e300d with 232,000 miles. However, after reading this thread, I think I will pass on the car. Sounds really dangerous. Just went through a similar experience with a 1994 saab 9000. I bought the car, found that the rear shock towers (totally hidden from view) were rusted out. Fortunately, the seller agreed to take the car back.

This sort of thing can happen with any car. Probably well under 10% of the RWD 210's are affected. It is not something on which to base your purchasing decision.

There is both a documented inspection and repair procedure in place for these. The inspection procedure involves the removal of the spring and all of the mastic covering, which I do not think any of the dealers actually do. That is one of the reasons that so many of them go undetected. The repair procedure calls for the new perch to be riveted instead of welded. It's a good fix but costly. If you like the car you can have it inspected the right way and if found faulty have it fixed. It won't break your bank.

The other interesting thing to note is not a single case could be found of any accident or injury caused by the failure of the spring perch. It seems most of the time they fail during slow speed turning, like turning into a parking space. I theorize that as the control arm bushings wear and the spring then twists slightly as the wheels turn is what causes the failure of the perch spot welds which are weakened by the rust problems. Plus, it is not like the wheel comes off or you cannot turn it...it is like a spring breaking, the wheel drops down but the upper and lower control arms are still attached to the car so it's not like it can come off or you cannot steer.

Personally I let my dealership inspect the car annually. So far my car has passed every time. How many more years will it pass? I don't know but I can't complain if I get to say 200K miles and need to spend $1000 or so to have the perches repaired. Right now I am over 150K and the car just passed inspection again.

OK, I took your advice and went $s in hand to the dealer after work today but it was already sold. Someone got a great deal.

To all: The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHSTA) just completed an investigation on the coil springs and spring perch failure in E class Mercedes build years 1997-1999. (Report completion Aug 9, 2007). The Action Number is PE07021 and the report can be viewed at NHSTA's site. There is no recall to date; however, the more people register complaints at the same site or at the hotline number 800-327-4236, the faster MB might move to issue a recall.

I Have A 97 E300 And The Spring Perch Went. I Had Work Done At My Shop And Inspected By Mb They Paid Half Of The Repair. I Sent In A Report To Nhtsa But Never Got A Report From Them.

I couldn't find the report on their site, if anyone knows how to access it or can provide a direct link please do.

Just looked at the NHSTA page for this and it also includes the '96 models.

I've got a '96 E320 and have had both spring perches fail now. I posted about it in the other thread here, with pictures: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/bodywork-repair-paint-tools-tips-tricks/147997-w210-dangerous-flaw-please-read-crosslinked-post-1-all-topic-data-3.html

nhdoc: Enter the Action Number (PE07021) into the search on this page: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/defectsearch.cfm

I find it interesting to note that based upon this report that there have only been 51 cases of reported spring perch failures, most of which were reported by M-B itself.

Either there are many, many cases that have gone unreported or just about every one which has failed has been reported on this board since it seems there have been lots of people saying they have experienced this failure here...fascinating.

In fact, one of the frequent contributors to this board (ILUVMILS, a dealership tech in the northeast) stated something like "I have seen many W210 cars flatbedded to our facility with collapsed front ends due to failed spring perches". He estimated in 2006 his dealership alone repaired 10-15 of them with failed perches. How can one facility have seen that many and yet only 51 have failed in the entire country? It seems statistically impossible.

I suspect there have been many more unreported failures...if that were the case and the frequency of failure was much greater would it have changed the conclusions of the report?

When mine was fixed earlier this year, the dealership told me that they usually see 1 - 2 per month. So that dealership alone has done about 20 per year.

Now this investigation is closed, I wonder if MBUSA will still be paying 100% or 50% for the repair.

Do pray tell, what reason is that?

I know of several (very expensive) cars that have fully seam-welded bodies. There is no such thing as too much rigidity in a body.

Just to make sure I've been accurately quoted, I'll quote myself. :D

I am interested to learn from the people who had the spring perches replaced on their E-320 models what MBUSA reimbursed and replaced with the reported riveted issue and whether they replaced any prior to a collapse.

I contacted MBUSA, spoke with two rep's who indicated they were aware of the issue, advised me to have a dealer (250 m. one way) inspect the car and after inspection told me that since no rust or corrosion was detectable, MBUSA saw no reason to replace the spring perch in spite of the reported cases I mentioned by MB dealers elsewhere even where rust was not visible and the recorded riveted replacement version.

MBUSA claim they take responsibility should the front suspension collapse on the road.

I was appalled to learn after I bought my '98 E-320 of the cheap design that MB applied to this perch in comparison to my other cars that I own(ed) like 123 and 126 series.
What would be the next step I wonder. It gives me an unsafe feeling driving the car since I don't know how much the car was driven on salty roads before I bought it.

spring perch replacement.
 

I am still waiting for a follow up from someone on the W-210 spring perch replacement, anyone there?
H.R.:

It won't happen man. Save your breath.

Answer:
 

It is rare for them to cover replacement, unless the dealer feels generous toward a valued loyal customer.

Bingo. If you are the first or second owner, and an excllent customer of the dealer you will get it fixed. If you bought it off a used car lot as the third or 5th owner and have never been to the dealer before, well you ain't going to get much. If you complain the dealer is going to say buy a new one and we will warranty the new one for 100k miles for you.

They said they wouldn't, but they did.
 

They repaired mine,after they said they wouldn't, after I said I wanted to talk to Man. rep. Mine was at shop after being towed in. After I called them to discuss with rep. They called back and said it was all covered including towing. This happened in about 2004. I am the third owner.:(:singer::pleased: