W210 Spring Perch Failure - Please read.
 

:MODERATOR EDIT ADDING DATA LINK:
W210 DANGEROUS FLAW please read (crosslinked in post #1 to all on topic data)
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/bodywork-repair-paint-tools-tips-tricks/147997-w210-dangerous-flaw-please-read-crosslinked-post-1-all-topic-data.html
:MODERATOR EDIT ADDING DATA LINK:


While backing out of a parking space last weekend, my front right spring perch failed. There was a huge BANG!! and the front of my car dropped to the ground. A portion of the spring was recompressed between the body and the pavement.

The car has never been in an acccident and has always been in SE PA. I spoke thoroughly with the previous (one) owner about the car before I bought it, did a car fax report, and had it inspected at my local MB specialist before purchase.

In the attached pictures you will see rust that developed between the spring perch and the body. No rust was ever apparent by visual inspection due to the sealant used by Mercedes around the perch.

I am thankful that I was the only person in the car at the time of failure. My wife, 2 year old and 4 week old were on the highway in the car the morning that this happened. Were this failure to have occured then, I hate to think what could have happened to my family and prehaps other's.

It goes without saying that this is a significant quality issue. Mercedes is aware of this issue but has yet to release a recall notice. Additionally, they to date, have no plans to do so.

I would advise all W210 owners to have there perches inspected by a competent body shop. However, due to the location of the rust being between the perch and the body, I can think of no way that either a visual inspection or even a stress test would ensure proper integrity.

...

Jeez! :eek:

My w124 has been through 18 winters of road salt and what not. And at the latest inspection the guy 'probed' all around my spring perches/mounts (with a pointed hammer) and told me they were like brand new!

On a '96 MB this is a major quality issue!

Freestyler

Slowmoe,

What year is your car?

'96 E300

I would'nt mind seeing some more photos of the spring perch, from other angles if you would'nt mind.

I would be talking to a Mercedes zone rep and or an attorney, that would not have been just a broken car had it happened at hiway speed............

William Rogers.........

More pics..

I hope you will gather up all your pictures and infomation and forward it to the NHTSA. Your data is the sort of thing that gets recalls rolling.

Have seen that on another 1996 E320 & heard about 2 others.
THAT should never happen even on a 50 year old car let alone a 8 year old car!!

I've seen tons of 210 spring perches collapse. I live in the salt belt so winters really take their toll. This is a common failure and should be a point of inspection on all 210's (regardless of year). You can get MB to pay for this if you speak with the right people (I would start at the dealership level, though). It's pretty scary stuff.

Not to thread hi-jack, but it's also pretty common for 140 springs to just break.

This happened to my 1998 E-300 (out of Warranty ) and Mercedes payed for the whole repair, aS THEY SHOULD HAVE.

Happened to me, too, no goodwill!!!
 

I had this happen to me, too. 1999 E300, 155K miles. 3 Hours from home.

No goodwill due to the mileage. I'm still waiting for the district rep.

:mad:

Goodwill Extended to me.
 

Well, got the car back, finally. (Delays mostly due to my travel schedule).

No charge. Not much conversation with the service people either. I must have a black flag in my file.

Had to pay for rental car though.

later.

Does anyone have the MB code/sku for this job? I was looking through the records for my new to me 210 and found a goodwill record at a cost of @ 1000$ but it doesn't say what it's for.

So the car was out of service from May 04 to Jan 05? Eight months or so. How much of that time was you versus them? Have you thought about asking for rental car reimbursement?

Does anyone know when the problem was allegedly fixed?

I don't think pcalt is an alias to slowmoe.

My mistake.

My est was around 1K
 

Brandon,
My initial estimate was around 1000. I don't know the code used though. I'll look for the paperwork tomorrow.

Have a good one.

i'm not slomoe
 

deanyl,
I'm not slowmo....

I was on a trip. My car broke down on a monday. I was 3 hours from home. I got a rental car. The car wasn't done by Friday. My schedule took me further away the next week, so I was unable to pick up the car. It was done when I picked it up on the 14th day. I do not know when it was actually complete.

have a good one.

S'aright. Happens to me quite often. ;)

PCalt,

That would be great ! Thanks for your help !!

999 code give
 

Brandon,
My paperwork indicated thusly:

code:999 Sublet to xxxxx Autobody N/C


So, not much help.

Sorry.

To add me 2 cents, I've seen this a few times also, always E300 Diesels, maybe more stress on the perch? Except once it was an E420 210 chassis, ditto the comment about more stress due to a big heavy engine.
I've also seen the front wheel bearings seize up on 210 Diesels, to the point where the steering knuckle and hub had to be replaced because the bearing welded itself to the spindle.
Gilly

Has anyone seen this happen on an E430?

I wonder why it would only happen on the diesels and on the E420, unless MB changed how they rust proofed the car...

Heavier engine is my theory........

Gilly

Yes, but both the 4.2 liter and 4.3 liter engines are all aluminum engines.

Why would the 4.2 liter engine be heavier, and if so, buy how much?

Well, you pressed me for answers, by golly you got answers, buddy.
Weights as follows, all weights include driver, calculated evenly at 68kg, baggage 7kg, and tank 90% full.
E300 non turbo 1560 kg
E320 (V6) 1580 kg
E320 (M104) 1600 kg
E300 Turbodiesel 1630 kg
E420 and E430 both 1690 kg

Gilly

Thanks, Gilly, you are the man!

Since E420's and E430's weight the same, I wonder why this problem hasn't happened to E430's.

I'm asking this because I'm thinking of buying a '97 E420 this Saturday (gulp).

Gilly, please tell me that E420's are nice cars.... :o

You'll think I'm kidding, but if I were looking for a MB right now, it'd probably BE a E420 210 chassis. Just LOVE those cars. Just drive one, you'll see why. I really don't have an answer, it could be a simple coincidence too. One thing I think I remember is a reinforcement bar being added to the upper spring perch on the 210 4Matics. You could, for your own piece of mind have one of these added to your purchase, or at least have the insulation scraped off (which in my mind hides any existing corrosion) and have the welds redone and see if I am right about a reinforcement bar and have that added. You could also consider having the wheel bearings packed, assuming they are serviceable. You'd need new grease seals for the inner bearings. This could also be done the first time you need rotors, save a little in labor.

Gilly

Gilly

Gilly ..

For the non-mechanically inclined just where
exactly are the spring perches located .. how
many are there on a 1999 E320 and what's the
best access to them for a re-weld ?? TIA
My non MB mechanic didn't seem to know what I
was talking about when I mentioned a potential
failure of the weld on my car's spring perches ..
Maybe I need a new mechanic :D

Triffin ..

I am the only one as far as I know. I am glad that this thread has been helpful to some of you.

Please remember that simply inspecting the perches is insufficient as the rust occurs behind the back plate and inside the area covered with rubberized coating (atleast it did on mine) - therefor know way to visually inspect. This is the scary part.

I can only imagine some sort of ultrasoud working here.

There are 2 front spring perches on these, one left front and one right front. The perches are the part that the top side of the front spring butt up against, it's a sheetmetal stamping which is welded to the front substructure. Easy to look at by lifting the car and removing the front wheels. The lower half of the springs seat into the top of the lower control arm, follow the spring up to the top and that's where the perch is.

Gilly

I have an 87 300 D and the left front spring perch also had rust occuring over an area of 2-1/2" X 3/4" within a couple of spot welds on the leading side of the perch.

I used a sharp 1/2" chisel to cut away the polyurethane rubber coating. If you catch it just right you can peel it off a little bit at a time. If there is rust under the coating you will find it loose under the coating and the coating will just peel off of it too! You'll have to probe around feeling for bulging coating with rust underneith, tapping the area might also reveal possible rust.

Just skimming thru some threads and wondered if anyone has done this yet and what the part numbers are. TIA

My E300d is at the dealer's now. I'll ask about it tomorrow. We have lots of salt up here and shi*ty roads. There are quite a few perch failures as well as broken springs. These break at the lower spring where the rock salt ends up and corrodes them. Then they fracture thru the rust pits. My daughter's Bmw has had a broken rear coil spring already.
Steve

Bad News,. Spring perches are bad! 1996 E300D
 

My car is at the local dealer's for the A/C repair and I had them inspect the spring Perches on my 1996 E300D. They're bad and close to failure. They require replacement. I'm not too pleased about it but I know it's necessary. The dealer is going to see what MB will do about it. Parts are on order.
Steve

Should I get new springs at the same time as the perches are replaced? 1996 E300d, 99k. Little rust on one of them now.

I wouldn't say it would be important to do it, no. I wouldn't discredit the idea either, if you're nervous about the rust or something, it wouldn't involve any extra labor to do it now, so the idea does have merit.

Gilly

I am not buying these stories with three photos each of them a size... is it 3K or 4K? LOL< that rust ceased to look real.

Granted, you may all be *right* and while some stories sound credible, some are plainly incredible.

Example A is the alleged "campaign" number that is purely allegatory. Bear in mind that although aCanada recall has some thrust, it is substantially outthrusted by the implication that I and every other 210 owner (all of us) in the USA was not notified of a recall and the recall was concealed by MBUSA with respect to any STARMARK car (that necessarily has had all recalls performed).

Circumstance B is the absence of any dealer's name mentioned in connection with the alleged good will or 50/50 repair jobs. Not uncommon is a post made by a person with no home city. :(

Photos A, B, C, and D are professionally labeled and while creative, artistic attempts were certainly made to paint it---nobody takes a photo of an item that is three square feet in size...that is 2.88K (such that it cannot be enlarged and maintain detail that would confirm its lack of authenticity).

Naturally, my lovely 210 that lived in IL for 75K and ...7 years is sweeet.

(I saw a LEXUS lose all four wheels yesterday....it was parked.)

Work on your stories, folks, and set the alarm clock an hour earlier.

It's Willy time. :)

The W210 unquestionably has rust problems. Are you asserting that all these instances of spring perch failure are untrue? Just because your own car does not have these issues does not mean that these problems do not exist.

I really wanted to make an E420 my next car. I'm glad I read this before I actually bought one.

What are you talking about? My friend had his done on his 1998 E300D with 155k miles done under good will at MB of North Haven, CT. Granted he and his father were a customer their in the past and had a relationship with them.

His spring perche's had very little visable rust but in looking at the old ones 2 of the four spot welds were rusted through. It was probably only a matter of months until they gave way.

You should get treated well either way, but the world doesn't always work that way. If you don't use your dealer for anything or just buy a filter from them once in awhile don't expect them to bend over backwards for you.

The problem seems to be with MB of North America, they are fixing some of these under good will but not others, it doesn't make sense.

Steve, could you please state the name of the local dealer. Thank you.

The following is a Comment or Question From Contact Us web page on the
Mercedes-Benz Canada site.

Sent to: Customer Service

From:

Title: Mr.
First Name: xxx
Last Name: xxx
Email: xxx
Address: xxx
Address:
City: Los Angeles, CA.
Province:
Phone Number: xxx
VIN: WDBJF25F2WA473086
Servicing Dealership: None chosen

Comment or Question: Hello, I request an interpretation of the
following codes if they are available. These codes pertain to spring perches on W210 vehicles according to stories that I have read on the internet. I do
not know if these stories are true or false--they describe potentially
fatal accidents due to suspension spring perch failures. Please inform me
whether or not you have ANY information regarding spring perch failures
and ANY information regarding these codes:

Campaign 01-0799
damage code 062900398

Please commit your response to my by email and in writing by mail. If
there is an immediate safety concern and MBZ wishes to contact me by
telephone, my phone numbers are xxxx and xxx. Thank
you.


Sincerely,
xxx

-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Reply from Mercedes-Benz Canada
To: xxx
From: CAC@mercedes-benz.ca Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:21:19 -0500

Dear xxx,

Thank you for your interest in Mercedes-Benz. Please note the VIN
provided in your correspondence does not pertain to a vehicle originally
manufactured for Canada. As such, we are unable to provide further
assistance in this matter. Kindly direct your inquiry to MBUSA at
1-800-367-6372 and a representative would be pleased to offer further
assistance.

Best regards,

Erin Somerville
Customer Relations Co-ordinator
Mercedes-Benz Canada Inc.
smart Division Canada
email:cac@mercedes-benz.ca
1-800-387-0100
1-877-627-8004

Mine broke last week
 

Thank God it happened while the car was parked! MB really needs to issue a recall before someone is killed! Any help in getting this "goodwilled" would be greatly appreciated. Yes, I know the car is ten years old but to dismiss this as a normal wear item is asinine.

-Tom

Gang, I apologize to the forum for my remarks above.

I am a firm believer in these stories and saw rust in the spring perch to frame welds on my car today.

It is sickening how MBUSA tries to conceal this.

It seems as though the sealant is very thin and can be picked at (exposing rust) very easily. My car was up in the air this afternoon at Downtown LA Motors and I began to look at it with the Shop Foreman (Harry). I intend to fully reveal whatever rust is there and take some photos of everything. Again, I apologize for questioning the stories that I read and thank you for sharing them.

More later and thanks again for the valuable info. Wow.

Even more remarkable if your car has always been in Southern CA.

Roughly:

1998 - 2004 ILLINOIS

(Looks like it was moved to Wisconsin and sold as STARMARK car with 75K miles in April 2004)

April 2004 - Present Los Angeles, CA.
-----------------------------------------

Interesting how this thread was resurrected today. Earlier this night, I received a phone call from my brother in law. The spring perch has failed on his E420 and it is being ramped to my dad's. I needed to contact my sister(who was unreachable by phone, but local) to inform her of his plight and she will be picking him up. AT THIS TIME OF NIGHT WITH A NEEDY TODDLER AND A RAMBUNCTIOUS 4 YEAR OLD KID!

The E420 that the spring perch failed on used to belong to ME! That was MY car!

I decided to part with it after my sister totaled her 300TE wagon when she hit a patch of ice and slid the vehicle sideways into a tree. She needed a car, and I had enough of them.