Pre WW2 MB diesel question

[whunter]

How would I find one?
Is there any hope?

[300SDog]

Yep, here's a 1937 290 Cabriolet C at Rochester New York....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2486722237&category=6329

Cool features include tilt windshield and extra long floor shifter. The rest of the interior looks like basic Ponton style to me, except with fewer detailed appointments. And those manual wipers have gotta be a pain in the ass.

It's not a diesel but who cares? Hell, it has an early version of the MB straight 6 cyl which probably carries greater historical value anyhow. Any diesel that old has gotta be a rattling bucket of bolts that probably cant even be driven in modern traffic.

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Last edited by 300SDog; 08-12-2004 at 05:18 AM.

[Gilly]

There ya go-eBay does it again! You want a Diesel car pre-WW2, or just the engine? Maybe the mags from some of the MB clubs would have one for sale once in awhile. Or maybe they'd be easier to find in Europe if you want to bring it back, it'd be fun to search for one.

Gilly

Mercedes' first passenger car diesels were built in 1936, but the diesel really saved Mercedes' bacon in the early '50s.

At a time when gasoline was of awful quality and short supply, the diesel put Mercedes in the game...building cars which had existed prewar, almost unchanged.

I drove a very nice '53 Mercedes-Benz 170DS sedan that had been ordered new by a member of the DuPont family living in Paris, when they found that the Cadillacs and Chryslers they'd had shipped from America had no fuel fit to run them. The 170DS was a lovely little car, lightly used, and with details such as a radio I swear was right out of a U-boat.

The car changed hands three years ago for about $15,000. You can find similar ones listed in Hemmings, or the MBCA magazine The Star. As for a chronologically prewar diesel...a LOT of Benz stuff is coming out of eastern Europe...something may turn up there. These were always utility cars...I don't think the '39-'45 period would have helped survival rates for these models. Good luck

[nachi11744]

Hello,
A 170DS would be the last word in durability, my dad's 1953 170DS is still with us, it still runs, only stumbling block has been the worn steering box(left hand traffic over here, parts as rare as hens teeth) and the Vogel central lubrication system pump. It has a very prewar *feel* to it, only the column gearchange giving the game away.
With the double wishbone front and swing axle rear suspension that was used on the big 300 limo AND the 300SL gullwing(lightened by drilling holes onto the forged arms), you get superb handling and ride with so so roadholding, but with all of 40bhp and weighing as much as a W123 300D sedan, performance is non existent. Top speed 100kmh(62mph) and 0-50mph is somewhere in the region of 50secs, but you do get 44 mpg.

[whunter]

Hello nachi11744
I would love to see pictures of this car.
Would they consider selling it?

[300SDog]

Maybe Nachi speaks of Malaysia when he talks about the heirloom RHD 170DS.

Otherwise, they appear all over the states regularly in various stages of restoration commanding prices at/near $5-$10k. There was a white one in Oregon in VG original/restorerd condition, but the owner is holding out for $15 Grand.

If I had the money (or if y'all wanna pass the hat), I'd like to bag one as my daily driver in any color except white and install a hotrod engine like the 68hp 4 cyl that powers my rusty 2.4 litre 123 that I've become accustomed to.... or (gulp) a 5 cyl engine.

For sure, the first S class diesel has got to be the ultimate bargain relic. Yet it must be borderline unsafe in modern traffic with its original engine":-(

"...superb handling and ride with so so roadholding..."

Nachi, what do you mean by this? Does the car oversteer and fishtail like cars driven by Chicago Gangsters and The Untouchables' Elliot Ness??

Sometimes superb handling and sloppy roadholding can be lots of fun!! My first car in high school was a '66 triumph spitfire mk2 that fishtailed like a sonofa*****, always predictable and controlable with superb handling.

And somebody somewhere has got to be able to tap and die beefier grease fittings than what Vogel provides.

[nachi11744]

Hello,
The car is in Malaysia, the real stumbling block to daily driver use of a 170V/D/S/DS anywhere in the world in city traffic has to be the brakes. Unservoed drum brakes and the weight of the vehicle make for some heart stopping moments in todays traffic.
In Raleigh, my daily driver 1998-2001 was a 1966 VW Karmann-Ghia and even that required careful assessment of traffic to get around without being squished by an inattentive driver in a Suburban or other gargantuan SUV.
OTOH, a collision with a 170DS would probably demolish a SUV and severely injure or kill the 170 driver. The bumpers on the 170 (if not rusted) are strong enough to deflect the car off any object without breaking. I know this from personal experience when the car was hit by a bus and everyone walked away.
The 112 inch wheelbase and low power(40bhp) makes for initial mild understeer followed by neutral steer, oversteer only happens on wet roads if inattentive. It certainly does not fishtail at the slightest provocation.
There is no space in the engine bay for a bigger engine, it was originally designed to carry a side valve 1.7 litre gasoline engine, even the diesel is a bit of a squeeze. The 6 cylinder 220 had a longer *nose* section, I am sure the X frame was slightly longer at the front end OR the radiator supports were ahead of the frame rails to move the 6 further ahead in the chassis.
Have a good week.

the driver. Braking distance is one factor to take into account. So are the different handling characteristics of bias-ply tires, if the car still has them. And any pre-power steering auto feels weird until you make the adjustment.

Learning these ropes is one part of the fun of old cars...you always need to remember that you are travelling back in time as well as down the road.

[bigpaws1984]

I've never been to KL personally, but worked in Penang for awhile :-)
I don't know how you'd survive with such a slow car in Malaysia without getting run off the road. My hired Proton 1.5 (thank God a stick) was barely powerful enough to keep up with the nutters on the road over there.

I had an ancient Nissan truck cut me off on the North-South at the toll booth :-(

[nachi11744]

Hello,
The drivers here are just merely stupid, I have given up trying to drive courteously or with due care and attention. My New Year's resolution for 2004 was to drive like all the other dummies, that includes running *expats* in Proton 1.5s off the road :p
I do not drive the 170DS on public roads. it sits in a garage. It has done it's service for us, being in daily use from 1954 to 1980.
The W115 200 and W107 500SL are both driven daily, I just ignore all other traffic and drive like I am the ONLY vehicle on the road and that is exactly the way Malaysians drive, as you seem to be well aware
Have a good week.