1964 220SEb Coupe / To Buy or Not to Buy??

[TClanton]

I'm normally reading up on 116s in the diesel forum, so I trust you guys will treat me kindly...

I was glancing through the antique vehicle ads Sunday (as I always do, but deny) and saw a 1964 220SEb coupe listed with 59K at what seems to be an extremely decent price. The guy is asking $2K OBO....middle of a divorce, etc.etc.... He is pretty up front about the need for paint, interior is not so great, bad front windscreen. Says he has had about $2K in work in the past couple of years, but wasn't specific about what. I am planning to see the car Wednesday and was curious what I should look for. Obviously rust is a factor, but I'm hoping that since it has always been an Alabama car, that won't be a huge issue. He is located about 60 miles from Bham, so the opportunity for my MB guy to look at it probably won't present itself. I do the routine maintenance on my 300SD, but he does the major stuff, so I'll probably ask his advice, too.

The downside is that if I decide to grab the 220SEb, my 300SD would have to go. I love the 116 and have a boatload of $$$ invested in it. I'd keep both, but the powers that be will not allow me to have 2 toys. Then I'd have to decide which one to sleep in....

Thanks in advance for any pointers or advice!

TC

[leenart]

For $2k if you can drive it for 10 miles without parts falling off, take it! Those cars are worth about 2-5 just in parts. Things to look for; RUST! If its got the original rubber trunk mat, then it wont have a trunk Those mats rust out trunks faster then a Merc goes through gas. Jack the car up with its jack and see if the car rises or the jack slices through the sheet metal (I did it once and I actually did slice through the sheet metal) Look for rust in the wheel wells, under the carpet and by the left front where the battery is, the battery tends to spill acids down the frame and it rusts out the front section.
The basic rule is take $10K minus sellers price and that is what you will need to spend to get a decent driver (and thats a minimum). New parts can get ultra expensive if they are available, when they are not used parts are then ultra expensive. Case in point the injectors; they're $150 each used and come in set of 3. Distributors? Haven't seen one for a while. Injection pumps??
This is the last of the early MFI systems and they are rare. They are not as common as the 108's and later w111's. Not a lot of early FI were sold before 1966, so your really getting into small field. Your also getting into an area not many mechanics have been to.
I just did the interior myself and ran $3K for the leather hide, seat kit and carpet. Engines run $5k and tranny about $1.5K. Suspension another $1-2K. Paint? Chrome $1-2K....and then throw in another $2k, because some SOB is going to screw something up or get in over their heads and your going to have to get something redone.
The smartest thing is buy one that has been redone or has a lot of repairs and paperwork to back it up and then finish it.
I think they are the best cars made (w111's) and I always get comments, even on the freeway.
As for the mileage, a 1 or 2 in front of it. Also keep the 300, your going to need a reliable car
The 220se could only be a weekend car, its just too expensive to keep on the road every day and if you don't work on it, you will, because your mechanic isn't going to feel good about the bills he will be writing and I guarrantee you won't feel good about paying them.

Of course they are the coolest things on the road and no car can touch them (at least those under 40K).
leonard

[norbtx]

That's tough. I don't think you can make it a dialy driver, an economical one that is. But as mentioned, I think behind the 300SL Gullwing/Roadster, the the W111 Coupe is easily the most beautiful postwar Mercedes. I'm biased of course, but if you look at recent classic MB prices, the only model that comes close to the 300SL's is the W111 Convertible. That should tell you something. Plus if you can keep another W111 on the road, then you'll be doing all of us a favor! For $2K, its worth a shot.

[TClanton]

Thanks, guys! I've barely been able to concentrate on work because I'm obsessed with this stupid car....

I definitely agree on the ability to sink cash fast. I thought I was getting a bargain with my SD, but ended up spending close to $11K over the past 4 years. Nothing major mechanically....motor mounts, alt, etc., but nothing inside. Most of what I've done was new AC, all new interior, window regulators,etc. I wanted to slowly bring it back to new and it looks fantastic, runs like a top. Down side is that I'll never get that money back out of it.

Goes without saying that would be the case with the 220, but I do think it might appreciate more than the 116 over time.

I'll see what falls off when I crank it tomorrow and, who knows, maybe it's my turn for that bargain car.....

Thanks for the tips.....I'll post tomorrow!

TC

[cth350]

windshield, bumpers, fenders, interior are the most expensive things on a 111 coupe. That's in ascending order. -CTH

[TClanton]

Well, I already know it needs a windshield and an interior, so I'm down two out of the gate.....

Maybe the bumpers are perfect.....

[TClanton]

Oh yeah, this will definitely be a weekend driver. The Dodge Ram does traffic duty! I cringe when I get caught in the rain with the SD.....

[Gregg Bambo Jr.]

There was a question mark on one of the replies. I had mine stripped to bare metal and painted for $6K. I was fortunate in that the only body work required was a rust removal and patch in the left spare tire well. If you do every bit of exterior chrome it will run $3K. The european headlight frames are pot metal and local chromers won't touch them. You have to send them to a specialist. You can view mine by opening the following site:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/deltacars/slideshow?&.dir=/Bambo%27s+cars/1963+Mercedes+220SEb+cabriolet&.src=gr&.view=t

[bikis]

You can make it look like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-200-Series-2-door-Coupe-220-SE-Coupe-250-280-300-SEL-4-5-s-se-seb_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6329QQitemZ4566433663QQrdZ1

[norbtx]

Yup that's the one I posted about a few weeks ago. Looks really good, but not concours at all. Don't get me wrong, its a nice restore, but still shows its age. I've been to a couple of concoures were the cars literally looks like it just left the factory! They were asking $32-35. But I don't like that particular shop were they are selling it, he seems to overprice most of his work and cars.

That is also the same car I saw when I first got my car about a year ago. It had just arrived in Houston from Hawaii.

[TClanton]

Thanks for the info, Gregg. Man, those pictures just make you want one more. I'm checking it out this afternoon, so I'll update on what I find and get advice from all. The guy told me today it hadn't been cranked in several months, so he was putting in a new battery instead of charging. I'm concerned that it has been sitting and every seal on it will be dried out and leaking. Of course, they probably all need to be replaced anyway.

Still, for $1500-2000....

[lee polowczuk]

That car on ebay would be a dream car for me. I have to think it is worth in the 50-60k range.

It would be a blend of the black 108 sedan I once owned and the black 124 coupe that I now own.

Plus A/C and fuel injection in 1963!

[Q45Denver]

Wow $70k in receipts on a $25K car...not a very good investment...will be interesting to see if it sells.

[wbain5280]

Don't even think about buying the car. Keep your W116. If you read other posts, there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes.

[TClanton]

My 116 is a testament to the "nothing is more expensive than a cheap" MB philosophy, Warren! I've got about 12K in it at this point (including purchase price).....BUT, it's like new, so I'm ok with that.

Well, guys, the 220SE was a bust....not that anybody will be surprised.

My expectations were low based on price, but I did expect to see a running vehicle, since the ad included the phrase "excellent mechanical condition." Saw the car from the street and realized it had been sitting out with a tarp...first bad sign. The grass was grown up around it, so it hadn't moved in a while. The guy decided then to tell me he hadn't started it in 3 YEARS! Might have been a detail to include in the 4 phone conversations we had. At any rate, he had bought a new battery (looked like a $25 Auto Zone number...for a lawn mower) and was attempting to get it ready to start. I gently suggested that might not be a good idea with 3 year old gas and oil that was probably mud. He agreed. I wanted to hit him.

He had mentioned that it needed a windshield and that there was a crack and a hole. I didn't think that meant there were shards of a windshield on either side and nothing in the middle. Of course, the dash and all wood was beyond help. Mostly disintegrated. He did tell me the interior needed work...just not that it would be a complete gut. The door panels were basically gone, floor pans completely rusted out. The front cross member was rusted to the point the bumper really should have been on the ground.

I really don't think it could even be used as a donor parts car. All the chrome was there, but mostly rusted. Holes in the bumpers. Holes in the doors. Cracked tail lights. Hood ornament gone. It was a mess.

Oddest of all was that the car had twin carbs. He said he had them replaced (and they did look relatively new) and had to argue with several people when he tried to order them. Has anybody ever heard of an SE with dual carbs? How could it be changed from FI to carb?

I kindly told him his car was really more than I could take on, then came home, washed up the old 116 and went for a ride....all new interior, working AC and shiny chrome....a sweet classic in its own right. And I almost cheated on her.

Thanks for all the tips and support. I'll keep on looking and keep you posted if another one shows up!

TC