1964 Mercedes 220 SE - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

wabenze · #1 05-07-2008, 01:39 AM

Just purchased this car which does not run and has undercarriage and body rust. The interior is shot. Can someone tell me what this car is worth. I paid $1,200 for the car.

wbain5280 · #2 05-07-2008, 06:03 AM

Unless it's a coupe or conv, you paid too much, IMHO.

t walgamuth · #3 05-07-2008, 07:01 AM

Its worth $1,200....to you.

It might not be worth that to anybody else. Thats why you own it!

First purchase price is pretty immaterial compared to the investment you will be making if you want to make it into a nice driving and looking car.

It is not a car that will be worth a million any time soon though so you will need to be careful to avoid having a lot more in it than you can sell it for.

Good luck.

There is help here for you.

Tom W

POS · #4 05-07-2008, 09:33 AM

Best question I can think of is "why did you buy it?" You want to restore it? Was it "a good deal" (it wasn't)? Were you going to make a driver out of it? Are you extremely wealthy and the market just isn't good enough for your "investments"?

todds · #5 05-07-2008, 10:13 AM

I think they're great cars. You have to ask yourself what you intend to do with it! You can always buy some new upholstery and slap it on, but your first problem will be the rust. If it's really bad and structural you may cut your losses and part it out (or break even with the way used parts prices are going on ebay)

If it's not running and you just want to drive the thing your first step is to get the engine to spin and do a compression test, then check the ignition system. Heck, throw an old thick blanket over the seats the way grandpa used to and take it for a spin. Then you can get a feel for how it drives and decide if you want to pursue it or not. Just watch what you're spending on it - you'd have to be willing to do the work yourself. The fuel injection is pretty cool, I wish mine had that. If you want to part it out and sell the FI components let me know!

wbain5280 · #6 05-08-2008, 12:57 AM

Todd, you're going to need the complete engine because the blocks are different, M180 for yours VS M127 for his. The injection pump mounts on the area behind the distributor on yours, if it could be mounted.

If you want FI, best to look at Megasquirt. I'm going to go that route when I get my engine back together.

cth350 · #7 05-08-2008, 07:50 AM

Todd, a "fun" project is to upgrade your car with an M110 motor.

wabenze, Having rust doesn't mean you have to fix the rust. But it does mean the car will spend the rest of its life as a beater.

Get it running, one step at a time, and have fun with it. You paid the price of admission, now enjoy the ride.

-CTH

todds · #8 05-08-2008, 10:50 AM

Thanks for the clues, I didn't realize there was that much difference between the m180 and m127, thought it was a bolt-on kinda thing.

That said, would the intake/exhaust manifolds also not fit an m180? I'm thinking the m127's manifolds would make a better match for a Megasquirt-ified m180 if so. I suppose the Megasquirt is a far more advanced system than the old MFI anyway.

cth350 · #9 05-08-2008, 11:21 PM

The exhaust manifolds are bolt one equivalents to the head, but the position of the exhaust pipes are not the same.

Ditto the intake. However, an M180 has no provision for injectors in the head. An M127 intake manifold has injectors in the manifold, but they're strictly mechanical and open with high fuel pressure (like 200psi).

You can put a 230SL, 250SE/SL or 280SL/SE FI head onto a carb'd block to get injector ports, but you will need to machine the ports to mount suitable injectors and you'll need to make provisions to hold the injectors down. Though not all heads will match the water jacket hole patterns of an M180.

If you can find an M114E head from a 250E or 250CE (a very rare thing in the US), you'd be setup with a suitable head to take bosch injectors.

Your best bet is use a very different motor, like an M110E.

-CTH

wbain5280 · #10 05-08-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todds

Thanks for the clues, I didn't realize there was that much difference between the m180 and m127, thought it was a bolt-on kinda thing.

That said, would the intake/exhaust manifolds also not fit an m180? I'm thinking the m127's manifolds would make a better match for a Megasquirt-ified m180 if so. I suppose the Megasquirt is a far more advanced system than the old MFI anyway.

Todd, that's the same thing I'm going to do. I have the intake and exhaust manifolds from a 250SE engine, M129. I'll have to weld on injector holders, drill the holes into the manifold at an angle and fashion a fuel rail. One step at a time though. I'll get it going on carbs first then get the FI stuff together.

Please see my posting about overhauling my M180 engine.

220S M180 Engine Work

Class is over and the next one, Machine Shop, starts on the 20th. I'll finish the engine then.

todds · #11 05-10-2008, 03:22 PM

Hi Warren, I've been following your other thread, the engine work is really interesting. Keeping all that work running clean and easy with efi is a great idea. While an m110 is definitely tempting, I've decided to stick it out with the venerable m180. I really like the motor, and to be honest, I don't really need more power out of it. I only have it 1/2 throttle most of the time anyway, not that it's fast whatsoever. What I'm hoping for with EFI is to make is smoother, more well behaved and more economical. All befitting of a grand old vessel. This car will never partake in stoplight drag races or left lane weaving on I-93 like all the other morons.

cth350 · #12 05-10-2008, 11:44 PM

Then add TBI injection via used chevy parts and a megasquirt controller. -CTH

todds · #13 05-12-2008, 01:35 PM

Yeah, the TBI route is definitely interesting, mostly because I can keep the air cleaner and throttle linkages and manifold relatively intact compared to a ported system. Is there any kind of carb adapter out there for the TBI? I know they exist for a Q-jet bore and carter squarebore, but would it work with a zenith/weber 2bbl? The only one I've seen is made by some offroad company for a toyota manifold but these are made to a strange angle. I suppose I could always have a couple adapters milled for me someplace based on a template.

The last hesitation I have with the GM TBI is the injectors being way too large. Having two of these units per car means I'd need very low rate injectors for a 2.3L engine.