Converting your Gasser to run on Natural Gas

[mamali]

Wondering if any one has done it? Pros and cons? It might be a cheaper alternative but not sure. Ideas, suggestions? Thanks

[Mike D]

Here's what I found when my shop truck was dual-powered (gas/propane).

Lower mileage, less power and a higher running temperature on the propane. Extremely hard to find fuel once you get out of a major metropolitan area.

I ended up being so disgusted with the set-up I ripped out the plumbing and used the mounted propane tank as an auxillary water tank.

It ain't cheap either! Figure on $600 to $900 for the plumbing, tank, valves, wiring (if you are going "dual power) and that's YOU doing the install (warranty void if not installed by an "authorized" facility, blah, blah, blah)

If you're doing it for ecological reasons then I say, "Go for it"! Economically, it doesn't make any sense. Those bastids raise the price of propane and natural gas refueling to match the cost of gasoline.

[alabbasi]

LPG is very popular in the UK and was (at least when I lived there) around 1/2 price of unleaded. General consensus was that you lose 10% in power and fuel economy. Some say it does cause premature engine wear.

[Q45Denver]

Originally Posted by mamali

Wondering if any one has done it? Pros and cons? It might be a cheaper alternative but not sure. Ideas, suggestions? Thanks

Engines run much cleaner and could last twice as long as there is no raw fuel running down cylinders. Not sure if legal but you could possibly refill yourself if you had a natural gas hookup at home. Probably only practical if you have a carburetor setup.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by Q45Denver

Engines run much cleaner and could last twice as long as there is no raw fuel running down cylinders. Not sure if legal but you could possibly refill yourself if you had a natural gas hookup at home. Probably only practical if you have a carburetor setup.

And how would I go about getting my own hookup. Will Washington Gas install one if I ask? I'm sure they and the county building inspectors wouldn't be delighted if I installed one myself!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Emmerich]

There is a home compressor www.myphill.com
It taps into your home gas line and fills overnight. Bad news is it costs 3 grand.

I have thought about buying a 6 cylinder 108 car for cheap and converting, but best bet would be to use car for commuting (no trips) and find a commercial station to fill.

CNG has octanne level of 130, propane is about 110. You have 30% less volumetric efficiency. Best way to recover that is with forced breathing, you will never detonate.

Dual fuel vehicles run like crap because engine is not optimized for either. For a commuter ride, pick one fuel and tune the engine, it will run great. You can also removed the gasoline tank and hang the CNG tank under the car, otherwise you will lose your trunk.

You see a lot more of these overseas, in some places, if you sell gasoline you must sell propane so the infrastructure is government sponsored of sorts.

[Q45Denver]

Originally Posted by Emmerich

There is a home compressor www.myphill.com
It taps into your home gas line and fills overnight. Bad news is it costs 3 grand.

I have thought about buying a 6 cylinder 108 car for cheap and converting, but best bet would be to use car for commuting (no trips) and find a commercial station to fill.

CNG has octanne level of 130, propane is about 110. You have 30% less volumetric efficiency. Best way to recover that is with forced breathing, you will never detonate.

Dual fuel vehicles run like crap because engine is not optimized for either. For a commuter ride, pick one fuel and tune the engine, it will run great. You can also removed the gasoline tank and hang the CNG tank under the car, otherwise you will lose your trunk.

You see a lot more of these overseas, in some places, if you sell gasoline you must sell propane so the infrastructure is government sponsored of sorts.

Not sure, never checked, but you can buy a new Honda Civic that comes with one.

[Q45Denver]

Originally Posted by Emmerich

There is a home compressor www.myphill.com
It taps into your home gas line and fills overnight. Bad news is it costs 3 grand.

I have thought about buying a 6 cylinder 108 car for cheap and converting, but best bet would be to use car for commuting (no trips) and find a commercial station to fill.

CNG has octanne level of 130, propane is about 110. You have 30% less volumetric efficiency. Best way to recover that is with forced breathing, you will never detonate.

Dual fuel vehicles run like crap because engine is not optimized for either. For a commuter ride, pick one fuel and tune the engine, it will run great. You can also removed the gasoline tank and hang the CNG tank under the car, otherwise you will lose your trunk.

You see a lot more of these overseas, in some places, if you sell gasoline you must sell propane so the infrastructure is government sponsored of sorts.

I believe CNG costs about 1/3 as much BTU wise so it would make sense. It is fairly prevalent in Gov't vechicles around here. You could bump up the compression ratio and advance the timing to recover any lost power and efficiency if any.

[Mike D]

I'm sure there are some but I've never seen a CNG tank which will hang under the trunk. 30 Galloners ( I don't think that is a word but, oh well) will fit into the trunk of a W114 and still leave you room for a couple of suitcases and an ice cooler.

German engineers must take everything they own on vacations.

[Emmerich]

Originally Posted by Q45Denver

Not sure, never checked, but you can buy a new Honda Civic that comes with one.

Not sure which model but Honda does have one.

[Emmerich]

No matter what you did there would probably be some level of fabrication, certainly for a tank under the car. Didn't mean to imply things would bolt right up to any car.

Originally Posted by Mike D

I'm sure there are some but I've never seen a CNG tank which will hang under the trunk. 30 Galloners ( I don't think that is a word but, oh well) will fit into the trunk of a W114 and still leave you room for a couple of suitcases and an ice cooler.

German engineers must take everything they own on vacations.

[omegabenz]

Originally Posted by Mike D

Lower mileage, less power and a higher running temperature on the propane.

Propane usually runs cooler, maybe you had a cooling issue or something.

Lower mileage/Less power, well when propane is cheaper than gasoline, who cares right? You have to calculate $/mi to figure that out.

[Ben12345]

I run LPG (propane) in my 560 engined 500 SEL.
Over here in the UK, Petrol (gas) is about $2.40 a litre!! I buy my propane with the taxes paid for $0.86 a litre.
Even with the slight decrease in MPG caused by running on propane, it still works out way cheaper than gas.

A family member runs their 1.6L I4 modern compact car on gas for the same price I run my 5.6L V8 mercedes on LPG.

I've found that the engine runs smoother and quieter, feels more responsive. The oil stays cleaner for longer, I hardly feel any power difference, but I do have the euro high compression 5.6, which benefits from the higher octane of LPG.

I keep a book with all of the LPG filling stations in the country in the car, so no matter where I go, I can still get LPG. Even if the worst comes to the worst, I still have my original fuel system I can use with the flick of a switch.

Cheers,
Ben

[mamali]

What does it cost to convert lets say a 72 280se to run on propane or CNG? I am fine with dual tanks. The car gets about 10MPG and thats a 6 cylinder of premium gas that is if it does not stall because of gas problems!!!

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by mamali

What does it cost to convert lets say a 72 280se to run on propane or CNG? I am fine with dual tanks. The car gets about 10MPG and thats a 6 cylinder of premium gas that is if it does not stall because of gas problems!!!

Problem running this SE on CNG/LPG is - Can the mechanical FI continue to operate indefinitely without gasoline in it?

As for CNG Hondas, are they availible in the US?
There are many vehicles that aren't availible here, including the much-touted diesel Accord. It's supposedly due to come stateside in '09, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Happy Motoring, Mark