Euro Spec Questions

[gflight]

I'm looking at a 1982 "Euro Spec" 300D Turbo Diesel (Vin#WDB12313012239614). It came through customs in 1984 and all paperwork is available and looks in order. I don't think customs and emissions inspection/clearance are an issue. Are there any special issues unique to Euro Spec cars that one should be aware of? The car looks very good with 140,000 miles on it. It has some funky Euro features on it like hand-cranked windows (inconvenient but could be an advantage in an older car), manually adjusted side mirrors (same inconvenienc/advantage trade-off), no wood trim on the dashboard, etc. I just need to know if there are any special issues, other than the usual things to look out for on this vintage MB, I should be looking out for on a Euro-Spec car. Any other caveats anyone wishes to add would be welcome. Thanks.

As an addendum to the above, it seems I have a choice between the above "Euro Spec" car with 140,000 miles and a 1984 300D Turbo with 320,000 miles but previously owned by an MB Tech who maintained it by the book while he owned it and is said to be running beautifully. Opinions?

[Mark DiSilvestro]

I live in Virginia, purchased a Euro '84 300TD last spring from a seller in MAryland, and immediately had a problem with the VIN. It seems that the car was previously registred in Washington DC and Maryland with the prefix 'WDB' omitted from the VIN, even though the prefix WAS present on the cars VIN tag and firewall stamping. As cars sold in the US since 1980 require at least 16 characters in the VIN, the Virginia DMV computer rejected it for the missing prefix. (I still wonder why neither DC or Maryland computers picked this up!)
Furthermore, the supervisor at Virginia DMV said that there might still be a problem with the complete VIN, as the Euro VIN has certain numbers, instead of letters, in the center that would be flagged by the Virginia DMV computer. However he told me that if Maryland's MVA corrected the VIN on the seller's title, the informaion would be entered on the national NCIC database, which would validate the Euro VIN for Virginia's DMV.
Sure enough, after two weeks, many phone-calls, and 3 visits wth the seller to Maryland MVA, we were able to find someone there that knew the correct procedure and get Maryland to correct the VIN. It then went through Virginia DMV registration without further hassles.

Some on this Forum have also reported the process was to simply get their own DMV to examine the Euro vehicle and sign-off on the VIN.
Chances are if you're buying a Euro from withing your state, and it was previously registered there, you won't have any problem.

Another possible issue is that some US insurance companies are reluctant to insure grey-market vehicles, so check with yours before you buy.
My carrier had no problem with my Euro TD, but did have to 'manually enter' the 'non-conforming' Euro VIN.

Also, some states and jurisdictions don't require emissions or safety inspections on a vehicle that's 25 or older, but some do, and others may impose limitations or restrictions, so check this with your local DMV and/or vehicle inspector.

Virginia doesn't inspect diesels older than 1996 for emissions, though gas cars are currently tested back until they're 25 years old. Annual Virginia safety inspectons apply to all vehicles, unless they're at least 25 years old AND are registered as vintage or antique, which adds some restrictions.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[gflight]

Thanks so much Mark for the prompt and thorough reply. These are just the things I was looking for. Gives me much to think about and to check out. I live in New Jersey and the car is presently in PA, so I guess registration is not an automatic but may be alright. I'm going to stop by a local private inspection station tomorrow with these questions in hand and hope they know what they are doing and can provide some answers. You didn't bring up any mechanical issues so I guess there are no mechanical issues specific to the Euro cars to be concerned about. How's the TD been doing since you bought it? Thanks again Mark.

Best regards,

Gary

[t walgamuth]

All major mechanical parts are the same as us spec.

I would give the vin to your insurance company prior to purchasing to be sure but in my experience in INdiana its not a problem.

Oh the euro 300 did not come with the turbo, so it it actually has a turbo its not original.....which is not a problem, really just a comment.

Enjoy!

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by gflight

Thanks so much Mark for the prompt and thorough reply. These are just the things I was looking for. Gives me much to think about and to check out. I live in New Jersey and the car is presently in PA, so I guess registration is not an automatic but may be alright. I'm going to stop by a local private inspection station tomorrow with these questions in hand and hope they know what they are doing and can provide some answers. You didn't bring up any mechanical issues so I guess there are no mechanical issues specific to the Euro cars to be concerned about. How's the TD been doing since you bought it? Thanks again Mark.

Best regards,

Gary

You should verify that the VIN on that PA title is complete and matches the one on the car, then run it by the NJ DMV or MVA to see if there will be a problem during titling and registration.
Also, someone once told me that NJ is one of the few states that requires emissions tests on cars going back to the '60s, but since most jurisdictions aren't equipped to require smog-testing older diesels, ask yours about that too.

Here in Virginia, the Euro headlamps used to be a real headache, as they wouldn't pass safety inspection. but since most vehicles have Euro-style headlamps now, that isn't such a big deal anymore. But do check with your NJ inspector.

My '84 TD came with Euro headlamps, but both glass covers were broken. So for me, the quick, cheap fix was to swap in a spare set of US 240D headlamp assys that I had grabbed at a Virginia Beach Pick-N-Pull for $24.
A PO had also installed a 5-mph US front bumper, and since my original Euro rear bumper was damaged and provided almost no protection for my tailgate, I picked up a US rear bumper, with skirts, boots & hardware at the Pick-N-Pull for $35, and installed that too.
While my Euro wagon now looks externally like a US model, right down to the PO-installed 'TURBODIESEL' badge on the tailgate, internally, it has the Euro equipment I wanted, including the non-turbo engine, manual windows, manual heat & AC, and the very-rare manual factory 5-speed!
With the manual tranny, it doesn't really need a turbo. Or as a friend once told me "These cars feel 500 pounds lighter with a stickshift!"

As for mechanical issues, while all '84 US-market TD were turbo, where there may be differences with my non-turbo TD, I can order from my local parts sources by VIN or I can order certain parts for the pre-81 non-turbo models.
For example, I had to replace the radiator in my TD. While an '84 TD radiator for the US turbo version was competely wrong, a replacment radiator for a pre-81 non-turbo wagon fit my car perfectly.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[MAF]

If the car has been 'Federalized", there is a sticker, on the drivers door pillar , much like a late model vin sticker, saying that it meets Federal standards, emissions,lights,glass,seat belts, crash worthiness, etc.
The value of a Euro car is virtually nil, to a dealer.
They can be hard to finance, insure,license, and generally just to sell.
If it is at all possible to find a US model, do it.
You may be able to find someone naive , to buy it, but don't count on it.
If it were a Porsche 959, or a BMW 745 Turbo,or some exotic thing, that's one thing, but a general run of the mill car,is not a good risk.

[Palangi]

I second what others have said about insurance. Some insurance companies will have no problem with a Euro, while other companies may not accept it. I suspect that a lot of it simply has to do with whether their computer database understands the vin or not. To be safe, run the vin number past your insurance company and see if they act confused, before you buy it.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by MAF

If the car has been 'Federalized", there is a sticker, on the drivers door pillar , much like a late model vin sticker, saying that it meets Federal standards, emissions,lights,glass,seat belts, crash worthiness, etc.
The value of a Euro car is virtually nil, to a dealer.
They can be hard to finance, insure,license, and generally just to sell.
If it is at all possible to find a US model, do it.
You may be able to find someone naive , to buy it, but don't count on it.
If it were a Porsche 959, or a BMW 745 Turbo,or some exotic thing, that's one thing, but a general run of the mill car,is not a good risk.

This is generally true if we're talking about an expensive late-model grey-market vehicle, but it's less of an issue on a car that's over 25 years old.

Since we're talking abou an '82 300D, The value of any '82 W123 is probably also 'nil to a dealer'. And there shouldn't be any emissions issues with an '82 diesel. Except for bumpers, and possible impact beams in the doors, the safety equipment should be about the same.
In my case I decided on a Euro 300TD because I wanted certain options that weren't availible to US buyers of these cars, such as the manual heat/AC and five-speed stick, and this car didn't cost enough that I needed financing. I also think there are enough diesel enthusiasts out there that would be interested in a Euro W123 with the options I have on my car, so selling it might not be that big a problem.
(Do a search, especiallyon the Diesel Forum, for all the threads on 240D and 300D automatic-to-manual conversions)
Now, if I had to choose between a Euro 300D and a US version with the same equipment (turbo, automatic, ACC, power windows) I might prefer the US version. However, overall condition, especially rust, could be the tie breaker on one of these. Otherwise, just make sure that NJ and your insurance carrier won't have a problem with this car.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[JimFreeh]

I'm in Virginia, and I've had to provide the release paperwork (DOT and EPA) from the converter to insure my grey market cars.

They can be a hassle, but you can overcome the problems with a bit of ingenuity.

Jim

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Well, there was a thread here a couple years ago where an insurance agent initially wrote a policy on a grey-market 230CE, then shortly after, the home offce wrote a nasty letter to the policy holder claiming they would cancel the policy on the coupe, as well as those on ALL his other vehicles if he didn't get rid of the car.
In this same thread was a sad tale about a grey-market car owner whose carrier claimed "fraud" after an accident, and refused coverage, leaving the owner holding the bag for a huge liability judgement.

On the other hand, I phoned my insurer's main office and provided the VIN and all details before I purchased my TD, and they had no problem, nor did they ask for any DOT or EPA paperwork.
A local Mercedes owner, Chuck Taylor, also claims to not have had any problems insuring some grey-market SLs he's owned.
I guess I could still get some notification that my carrier has changed it's mind about my TD, but it's been almost a year, and as I gave them all the details, and the correct VIN before they agreed to insure, they (hopefully) shouldn't be able to cry fraud!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Loz]

As a European, I should like to point out that the nickname "Europe's Taxi" was born from this model of car. As such, I would be highly suspect of the mileage.

[gflight]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

All major mechanical parts are the same as us spec.

I would give the vin to your insurance company prior to purchasing to be sure but in my experience in INdiana its not a problem.

Oh the euro 300 did not come with the turbo, so it it actually has a turbo its not original.....which is not a problem, really just a comment.

Enjoy!

I'm particularly interested in what you say about the euro 300 not coming with a turbo. Come to think of it, I haven't actually seen anything in the write-up or heard anything from the owner saying it is a Turbo. I assume such because the air cleaner set-up in the picture of the engine compartment (detailed to spotless beauty BTW) looks like that for the turbo. I'm also interested in LOZ's comment as a European that these were "Europe's Taxi" and therefore the mileage (140,000 miles) might be suspect. However the photos of the paperwork show that the car was imported on 2/6/84, so if it was a taxi, it didn't spend much time in Europe and the mileage may be legitimate, although that mileage does seem awfully low for a 26 year old car. (!)

[mercmad6.3]

Are you 100% sure it's an 82-84 made car?
No dash wood can mean a 1978-80 model too. Cheap deals like manual windows and no central locking were common on 200 and 240D's because they were taxi's. If it was a Euro car and it has miles on the speedo then it has done significantly more than the indicated mileage. Speedo change over is part of your fed process.
You can request a cars build date from mercedes or just remove the horn pad from the steering wheel. The actual date the car finished it's journey down the production line is stamped in white ink inside the wheel hub or on the horn pad.
1982 may have been when it was first registered in your country.
Myself,I don't give a dman about those things when buying an old merc,what ias important after the model type,is the price and if it's going to take a while to get it running. It is afterall a Mercedes ,not some down at heel Hyundai.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by gflight

I'm particularly interested in what you say about the euro 300 not coming with a turbo. Come to think of it, I haven't actually seen anything in the write-up or heard anything from the owner saying it is a Turbo. I assume such because the air cleaner set-up in the picture of the engine compartment (detailed to spotless beauty BTW) looks like that for the turbo. I'm also interested in LOZ's comment as a European that these were "Europe's Taxi" and therefore the mileage (140,000 miles) might be suspect. However the photos of the paperwork show that the car was imported on 2/6/84, so if it was a taxi, it didn't spend much time in Europe and the mileage may be legitimate, although that mileage does seem awfully low for a 26 year old car. (!)

I wasn't able to find my latest edition of 'Mercedes-Benz Production Models', but I did get the Euro owner's manual out of my '84 300TD, and included with the numerous Euro-only versions of my wagon, my owner's manual lists a Euro 300TD turbodiesel.
As for the mileage readings, regardless of the vehicles history (or any possible taxi connection) the odometers on these cars are notoriously unreliable once they get some age on them, due to the pot-metal drive-gears loosening and developing slippage on the shaft.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[gflight]

Thanks Mark.