W111 Chassis Fintail Windshield Seal Frustration - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Squiggle Dog · #1 10-19-2011, 08:17 PM

My roommate decided that he wanted the heat-absorbing glass from my 1968 200D installed in his 1965 220S. He was looking at windshield seals and I told him to buy genuine Mercedes ones because I'd heard that aftermarket seals don't fit correctly.

I showed him the prices of the genuine seals and he said he couldn't justify spending that much money on rubber (the front seal alone is $280). I told him that it was worth buying the OEM seals instead of struggling with aftermarket ones.

He insisted it was a waste of money, so we started looking into some other brands. We found two brands; URO and Febi, which were 1/10 the cost of the dealer seals. I told him that Febi was probably the better of the two, but the UROs were cheaper, so he seemed to lean more toward those.

Someone on eBay had a Febi brand rear seal listed, so he bought that one. However, when it showed up, it was actually a URO seal. My roommate asked the seller about this, and he said that he switched to URO because people liked them better. Then he purchased a Febi front seal from somewhere else. I said I would be a good sport and try to make them work.

We finally had a few days without rain, so I removed the glass from both cars and started putting the URO rear windshield seal on the tinted glass. The seal went on the glass just fine and seemed to fit well. The trim didn't want to stay in because there was just a valley for it to fit in--no extra notch to hold the trim in place like the original had.

I cleaned the window frame of the body very well and sanded down much of the original hardened putty sealant. I tried several times to get the glass to fit, but it would not seat. The trim kept popping out as well.

So then I completely removed the putty so that the body was absolutely clean and had no raised areas. I tried again and the glass still wouldn't seat in place. I had the inner lip of the seal completely around the pinch weld, but the glass was still sticking out too far up top and wouldn't seat down. The trim kept popping out because the URO seal had no retaining groove for the inner edge of the trim. After the trim would pop out, it would seat down just a little more, but still not enough.

The seal and glass are seated as far as they can possibly go, and yet the glass isn't down far enough. The URO seal seems way too thick.

I told my roommate that I can't get the glass completely set in, and certainly not with the trim in it. He said he didn't see why I couldn't just hammer it back in. I told him that the only way it was going to work is with an OEM seal. But he thinks that they are ridiculously expensive and says that he can't afford them, but also isn't happy with my job.

Are the genuine seals really any better? He doesn't seem to think that the new OEM seals will have the extra retaining notch cut in for the inner trim lip. He thinks that if he buys an OEM seal that it will just have the same problem as the aftermarket ones.

I'm frustrated because there is absolutely no way I can get that URO seal to work correctly. Now my roommate is frustrated because I couldn't do the job and thinks that I am just blaming it on the aftermarket seal. And it started raining and doesn't look look like it will stop for at least a week.

I've spent 5 days trying to get that glass in there, but it just won't fit! He also doesn't want to pay a professional to install it. Any thoughts? The Classic Center is willing to give me over $100 discount on the seals, yet my roommate still doesn't want to pay the price.

Can the reason I can't get the glass in really be because of the aftermarket URO seal? It seems that the glass needs to move downwards, but the glass is maxed out against the seal, which is maxed out against the pinch weld on the body. There's nowhere more for it to go, and I am thinking that the OEM seals either use a softer compound, or they aren't as thick as the URO ones.

Oh, and I am doing things EXACTLY as described in the factory service manual, with overlapping enameled cords, less the sealant.

jackson101 · #2 10-19-2011, 09:39 PM

Sorry about the trouble. I've been in the same position myself with a friend, relative, room mate,...etc. As for the seal, I don't have any first hand knowledge of the seals on the vintage benz, but I will have very soon. That's why I wanted to read your post. We'll be doing glass seals on my sons '67 Fintail pretty soon.
What I have heard about the aftermarket seals,..is,.. they leak! Not that they are impossible to fit, just don't fit well enough to keep water out. Perhaps the "Ebay" guy sent the wrong seal? Any chance of that? Your room mate didn't receive the part as advertised,...maybe it's the wrong one all together.

Squiggle Dog · #3 10-19-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson101

Sorry about the trouble. I've been in the same position myself with a friend, relative, room mate,...etc. As for the seal, I don't have any first hand knowledge of the seals on the vintage benz, but I will have very soon. That's why I wanted to read your post. We'll be doing glass seals on my sons '67 Fintail pretty soon.
What I have heard about the aftermarket seals,..is,.. they leak! Not that they are impossible to fit, just don't fit well enough to keep water out. Perhaps the "Ebay" guy sent the wrong seal? Any chance of that? Your room mate didn't receive the part as advertised,...maybe it's the wrong one all together.

Thanks for the response! The seal is definitely the correct one as it is identical in appearance to the original, however it seems to be too thick and lacks the extra notch to lock in the trim. Has the correct part number on the bag. I think it's just not as much of a precision fit as it should be. I took a look at the original seal from my 200D and it seems that the seal is much thinner than the URO (and not just from age).

Also, we inspected the Febi front seal, and it has the extra notch that locks in the inner trim edge that the URO was lacking. The rubber also seems the be thinner than the URO, so perhaps I may be able to get the front one to fit. I recently read a write-up about someone who tried to install a Febi rear seal on his W110, and after several tries, trashed it and installed an OEM seal. He said it popped in on the first try.

I think I will attempt to install the Febi front when the weather clears up. I told my roommate that he needs to be prepared to order the OEM seals if it doesn't work out if he wants me to proceed any further.

Mercedes are great cars and not necessarily expensive to own and maintain, but it seems that one should always set aside at least $1,500 for replacement of weatherstripping. At least my roommate didn't spend the $800 on the complete URO weatherstrip kit!

Carpenterman · #4 10-20-2011, 12:00 AM

Hey, Squiggie! I'm the one who had the recent trouble with the Febi rear seal. It took me 11 tries, all kinds of goofy (unsuccessful) on-the-fly techniques, and buggered trim to finally convince me it just wasn't right. I can be pretty stubborn. And yes, the OEM seal went in on the first try and looks fine.

The problems you are having are exactly the ones I had. Have your roommate give it a try (or 11) and see what conclusion he comes to.

Mark DiSilvestro · #5 10-27-2011, 11:54 PM

Over the years I've used two replacement windshield gaskets from Mercedes. The first was in the late '80s, on my '61 Ponton 180. The second was two years ago on an '82 240D. They fit perfectly. My only quibble was that apparently the rubber gaskets had sat on a shelf for so many years that premature aging set in following installation and exposure. After two years my 240D windsheild gasket has starteed cracking badly in the upper corners. So be forwarned.

Happy Motoring, Mark

mercmad6.3 · #6 10-29-2011, 10:45 PM

Only buy OEM seals.
Only buy them from the classic center who will Sell only NEW parts.

It is impossible to get any of the aftermarket seals to work regardless of who makes them or sells them.
'Daimler benz formulated it's own neoprene to make the seals and it lasts for 30+ years.
break a screen trying to fit a dodgy seal and you soon know what the word expensive really means.

Squiggle Dog · #7 10-30-2011, 03:48 AM

Today I removed the front windshield so that I could install the headliner. It's an original seal that's a bit hardened, yet I was able to push down the inner lip with my fingers and push the whole windshield out by hand without having to cut the seal!

Just for fun, I decided I would reinstall the windshield with the old original seal around the glass. IT POPPED RIGHT IN! I didn't even use any cords! All I did was set the glass on the pinch weld then run a plastic prybar around the seal to seat it. If I have any problems using the Febi seal for the front, I'm telling my friend to get an OEM seal for the front.

On Monday I'm ordering a rear seal from The Classic Center. There's just no way that the URO one will fit. The rubber is much too hard and thick compared to the original seal. Reading Carpenterman's post, the Febi rear seems like it wouldn't work any better than the URO one.

Oh, and get this--aftermarket door seals (Chinese URO) are $190 each. I can probably get them for less money at The Classic Center. Sounds like a no-brainer to me!

mercmad6.3 · #8 10-30-2011, 05:21 AM

I cut the screens out my W111 coupe this week and they were the original 1962 parts. talk about hard!! . i have to shave the rubber seals down with a stanley knife to get the glass loose. it appears that when the car was assembled someone got carried away with the glue that holds the headliner up. It stuck the rubber in damned good for 50 years.
The originals had a grey mastic stuck around the lip of the aperture and when the glass was finally fitted,a small amount of black mastic was pushed into the gap between the rubber and the body to prevent water getting underneath.

Travis_k · #9 10-30-2011, 04:17 PM

Just how much do the (factory) seals cost?

Squiggle Dog · #10 10-30-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis_k

Just how much do the (factory) seals cost?

I think the front is $280 while the rear is $127... of course, if you're an MBCA member, you get a 15% discount, depending on where you get them from.

Then you're looking at nearly $1,000 for door seals, about $250 for a trunk seal, about $80 for taillight seals, probably $100 a piece for vent window rubbers, about $200 for window channel and side window seals, then you still have to buy the inner B-pillar rubber... So figure on at least $2,000 to get the car water-tight (not including labor or supplies).

Aftermarket rubber doesn't fit right, so you're stuck with spending a fortune on rubber, or having parts that don't fit well or seal properly (then deteriorate quickly).

Squiggle Dog · #11 10-31-2011, 10:51 PM

Today I tried the Febi front seal. I couldn't even get it to fit on the glass correctly, let alone on the car! It seemed that the seal was too small in diameter. I was afraid I was going to break the glass or bend the trim trying to fit it. It kept wanting to curl and lift at the corners. I finally gave up. Tomorrow I'm placing an order at The Classic Center for quality seals that actually fit.

Now my friend regrets having bought the cheap seals because he wasted $70, a solid week of my time, and a bit of my sanity. Unfortunately, before I install the seals, I have to replace the headliner. My friend purchased the one from my 200D because it's in mint condition, but sadly the W110 chassis uses shorter rear grab handles, so we would be left with extra holes. He decided to buy a new headliner from Turkey, so the car is going to have to chill for a month until it arrives. It will be interesting to see what the headliner looks like and how easy it is to install. I dread having to do the headliner and glass installation in sleet and snow... I'll be so glad once it's over with.

mercmad6.3 · #12 11-02-2011, 08:20 PM

buy one of those temporary garage things that unfold. You can work under that ,then put it away when fifnshed to prevent the snow from sqaushing. ....or move to a sunnier clime.

Squiggle Dog · #13 11-03-2011, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

buy one of those temporary garage things that unfold. You can work under that ,then put it away when fifnshed to prevent the snow from sqaushing. ....or move to a sunnier clime.

I think I will choose the latter. I'm really hoping to move to the southwest USA in the next year. But I still have to get it done before then.