WVO? inevitable damage to engine? - Page 9 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #**121** 11-09-2010, 01:34 PM

Now it looks like the head butting has subsided - just like the police I'll step in now!

There is a recurring statement throughout the thread that says WVO damages engines and apart from sticky piston rings there doesn't seem to be anything else listed.

Would it be possible to create a list of problems that occur as a result of using WVO?

boblo_home · #**122** 11-09-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Would it be possible to create a list of problems that occur as a result of using WVO?

On the same note, would it be possible to create a list of problems that occur as a result of using dino-diesel?

biopete · #**123** 11-09-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

Is this the same logic as Doctors are more dangerous than handguns?

Back in the dark ages, I bought a used 60,000mile Vega GT for a "winter beater". It burned oil and smoked like a leaf fire. When running to the next town for a MG club meet a week or so after I bought it, pedal to the metal (about 100-105mph) it cleared up, only used a quart/2000miles after that. I'll never really know why.

LOL. And chainsaws are more dangerous than WVO too. Along with sexy girls walking down the street.

Alright. i was totally BSing on that last remark. You got me. I hope my car quits using oil like it does. That would be cool. I did notice there seems to be less blow by on the valve cover that leaked out the PCV . Better go drive it.

Dee8go · #**124** 11-09-2010, 03:01 PM

Isn't this somewhat akin to bringing up politics or religion at a family dinner?

biopete · #**125** 11-09-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army

Now it looks like the head butting has subsided - just like the police I'll step in now!

There is a recurring statement throughout the thread that says WVO damages engines and apart from sticky piston rings there doesn't seem to be anything else listed.

Would it be possible to create a list of problems that occur as a result of using WVO?

Injection Pumps maybe. But they can get damaged from a lot of things such as water in fuel, bad fuel, and possibly running unheated WVO through it for extended periods of time.

Although for Mercedes, the IPs are so tough that I don't think it is common for WVO to harm IPs. This one i just got had cold WVO go through it at start up to the first 15 minutes or so for the last 3 years. It seems fine although it may have been gunked up at first.

Stretch · #**126** 11-10-2010, 03:49 AM

OK so we've got:-

1) Sticking piston rings
2) Injection pumps (may be)

Any valve wear - like the leaded / unleaded petrol problem?

Please continue to add to this list!

On a slightly different subject:- Does anyone know where to find specific fluid properties of Diesel. Such as viscosity within certain temperature limits / permitted water content / filtration limits etc etc.

layback40 · #**127** 11-10-2010, 06:11 AM

Since you asked Army.
Sticking rings if not fixed will result in damage to the bores & pistons. In extream cases, piston failure.
Excess blow by can result in engine run away & major failure.
The whole fuel system is susceptible to problems dependent on the WVO. In particular varnish formation in all parts. That is fuel blockages from the tank, lift pump failure, IP damage to the elements & pressure control, Injector blockage & seizure.
The unburned varnish as it concentrates in the oil can cause crankshaft bearing seizure.
Incompletely burned liquids can cause blockage/deactivation/poisoning of the cat converter in the exhaust system (W124 & newer).
I think thats about it.

Its interesting to note that the WVO guys get a much better hearing in here than they do in the TDI forums. I have seen there they are told to go & get an old benz & stay away !!

biopete · #**128** 11-10-2010, 11:07 AM

Theres no definitive answer. All parts are subject to wear and tear. Any parts from lift pump , to IP , to injectors I assume get more wear and tear due to using VO. How much extra wear and tear depends on quality of VO. How much wear and tear can they take is still to be determined. Hopefully i'll keep a car long enough to find out. My friends 240D has like 330,000 miles on it and has been running wvo since about 200,000 miles .

Everything layback said are things to look out for. But you can prevent any major damage simply by:

1) Making sure glow plugs are good.
2) Making sure injectors are good. Replacing and checking as necessary.
3) Oil changes at 5,000 miles prevents oil contamination so you can easily prevent crank seizure. (Many have have posted oil analysis results saying the engine wear and oil are good at this interval.)
4) Last but not least, use good , water free oil. (really should be a given)

Personally, i do Fuel filter changes every 5,000 miles or so because they clog by that time. Others get more miles. At 10.00 a filter not bad.

I've never seen a lift pump fail on an MB.

The veg kits usually come with a big fuel line 10MM or 11MM id from elsbett for the VO. You put that from tank to IP. No fuel line clogging problems.

The fuel tank can get funky with WVO in it. But that is cleanable. I've never seen a wvo tank strainer clog. However, I have had two benzes with diesel fuel that sat a long time with terribly clogged strainers.

The biggest problem i expect with WVO use (single tank especcially), given the fact I'm watching out and preventing any engine damage by doing things mentioned above, is the IP. I have a friend with 1987 603 who had to replace his IP after about 50,000 miles or so running single tank wvo. He did'nt even heat it at first . I think he just blended it. Then he added a glow plug heater. He never replaced relay with afterglow relay or replaced his injectors. So i'm thinking I should get 100,000 out of my IP with my single tank elsbett system.

GregMN · #**129** 11-10-2010, 11:27 AM

How long is a piece of string?

Twice as long as the distance from one end to the center.

There is lots of good information in this thread. But, if you don't already know what it is, it will impossible to pick it out from the bad information.

bluebird · #**130** 11-10-2010, 12:47 PM

There are those of us that run WVO successfully and I am sure that there are some that do not. Boeing builds aeroplanes and has done so for many years, but... they are having problems with their new 787. They put their heads together and solve the problems just like they have always done.

We run WVO, some have problems and overcome them and some have problems and say never again.

I had a post on here about "Black Death" in my diesel tank, yes I have a WVO tank but that was not where the problem was. I posted on this Forum asking about eliminating the in tank fuel filter as there 2 more filter down the line before the IP. I was attacked by the Wrestling Tag team of Layback40 and W124 E300D because I was using WVO. My problem was in the Diesel tank not the WVO tank. I eliminated the in tank filter and washed out the diesel tank with gasoline, added clean diesel, and BioPor and have had to change out the primary clear filter 3 times and the car is running fine now. I have saved enough money using WVO to purchase 2 of these 300SD's in the last 2 years and I paid good money for my 300SD. I change my engine oil and filter every 3k miles and have BlackStone do and oil analysis just to know what is happening with my engine. But it is after all my engine and I can do with it what I want. People have looked at my car and the comment is always "What a beautiful machine and how do you keep the engine so clean?"

Cars break down and it is a challenge sometimes to figure out what has caused this and sometimes you never come up with a definitive answer and sometimes its only a guess.

How do you think we got to this point in our lives, EXPERMINTATION, without expermintation where would we be. Shoveling horse s### is where we would be.

You guys that want to run diesel go ahead I won't argue with you just so long as you don't argue with me about WVO.

Don't use Bio D in your diesel tank if you run WVO, I didn't learn this on my own I learned it from someone who did run Bio D and WVO and had a mess in the WVO tank. Things we have learned about WVO over time are:
1. Don't uses a steel tank use plastic, aluminum, or stainless steel
2. Don't use copper anywher near WVO
3. Get the WVO up to 160oF before the IP

The above first 2 items were commonly used and probably caused many problems during the infancy of the WVO movement.

There were other individuals on this forum that attacked people about the use of WVO and they have been banned from this and other forums for those actions. Lets just live and let live. This thread started as a "will WVO ruin my car" thread and the answer is yes but so will running it on D#2 or for that matter, will just letting it sit unused.

bluebird · #**131** 11-10-2010, 01:25 PM

Wow this is fantastic, this man is thinking outside the box. I like it! And this information came from this site on another thread, I just thought it was pertinate.

http://www.flixxy.com/convert-plastic-to-oil.htm

Fredmburgess · #**132** 11-10-2010, 01:26 PM

holy cow, this thread is still alive??

More anectdotal evidence, I'm afraid. Went out this cold morning, turned the key, and .....the '99 E300 fired off and ran just fine for another 100 miles or so, all but 3 of it on WVO.

Okay, so I couldn't help myself. This is at least as useful in a mercedes diesel forum as a link to a kubota tractor that coughed up a pre-chamber after being run for short periods on a single tank system which the installers admittedly struggled with from the outset.

I can't provide proper scientific evaluation until I have good reason to tear the engine down. After 60,000 + WVO miles (on this car alone) I'm not there yet, but I will absolutely report and post photos if I have reason to do anything relevant and more invasive than replacing fuel lines or glow plugs (which on these engines might just be an annual event, regardless of fuel choice.) 203,000 miles now and I'm betting on 300,000 if the rust doesn't get it first. None of these cars - or any of us - live forever. Whack the pedal and drive!

funola · #**133** 11-10-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biopete

Theres no definitive answer. All parts are subject to wear and tear. Any parts from lift pump , to IP , to injectors I assume get more wear and tear due to using VO. How much extra wear and tear depends on quality of VO. How much wear and tear can they take is still to be determined. Hopefully i'll keep a car long enough to find out. My friends 240D has like 330,000 miles on it and has been running wvo since about 200,000 miles .

Everything layback said are things to look out for. But you can prevent any major damage simply by:

1) Making sure glow plugs are good.
2) Making sure injectors are good. Replacing and checking as necessary.
3) Oil changes at 5,000 miles prevents oil contamination so you can easily prevent crank seizure. (Many have have posted oil analysis results saying the engine wear and oil are good at this interval.)
4) Last but not least, use good , water free oil. (really should be a given)

Personally, i do Fuel filter changes every 5,000 miles or so because they clog by that time. Others get more miles. At 10.00 a filter not bad.

I've never seen a lift pump fail on an MB.

The veg kits usually come with a big fuel line 10MM or 11MM id from elsbett for the VO. You put that from tank to IP. No fuel line clogging problems.

The fuel tank can get funky with WVO in it. But that is cleanable. I've never seen a wvo tank strainer clog. However, I have had two benzes with diesel fuel that sat a long time with terribly clogged strainers.

The biggest problem i expect with WVO use (single tank especcially), given the fact I'm watching out and preventing any engine damage by doing things mentioned above, is the IP. I have a friend with 1987 603 who had to replace his IP after about 50,000 miles or so running single tank wvo. He did'nt even heat it at first . I think he just blended it. Then he added a glow plug heater. He never replaced relay with afterglow relay or replaced his injectors. So i'm thinking I should get 100,000 out of my IP with my single tank elsbett system.

Has the thought occurred to you that the IP can conceivably last longer on VO than diesel? This could very well be true if you run very clean and water free VO since VO has much higher lubricity than diesel. Your friend killed the IP with the glow plug VO heater. What it does is slowly emit burned oil particles (carbon) into the IP.

Stretch · #**134** 11-10-2010, 01:53 PM

The list is now

1) Sticky rings => leading to bore / piston failure => excess blow by => run away engine
2) Varnish formation => fuel blockages => IP damage / lift pump failure(?) / Injector blockages
3) Engine oil contamination due to unburnt varnish
4) Unburnt liquids can cause damage to vehicles with catalytic converters

To my mind this boils down to two problems

a) Fuel purity => filtration / water content / cleanliness
b) Fuel combustion

Does that sum it up?