WVO and Coolant Temp - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pdxwaker · #1 09-19-2003, 02:10 PM

I've been researching adding full WVO capability to my '85 300DT. I'm looking at adding a trunk mounted tank and using engine coolant to heat the tank and supply line (hose in hose). So far I've been using Joshua Tickell's "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" as well as some net research to plan the system.

Here's my concern: my coolant temp typically runs only as high as the first line above the 40C mark on the instrument cluster (= what temp?). It usually doen't even aproach the 80C mark unless I'm in stop/go traffic for longer periods of time. According to Joshua's book, WVO temp should be brought up to ~70C to avoid coking injectors. It doen't look like I can reach this temperature through a coolant based heating system during regular driving.

I know a lot of forum readers use WVO mixed w/diesel but I'm concerned about longer term problems associated with the viscosity of WVO (ex: coked injectors).

Any ideas on the accuracy of the dash mounted temp gauge? Any other inputs on my concerns?

-John

Phreetogo · #2 09-19-2003, 02:38 PM

Check out this site and ask a question there. There is lots of knowledge among the members.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=447609751&f=159605551

Some people use coolant and electric heaters to boost the temperature before reaching the IP. Check out this site for downloadable step by step files useful for conversions.

http://danalinscott.netfirms.com/

Hope this helps
John

McRoth · #3 09-19-2003, 03:27 PM

I would think that your thermostat is stuck open if it doesn't get hotter than that during normal driving. You should probably check that out first as your engine won't run as well as it should like that. My 240D runs just above 80 all the time.

Just my 2 cents.

engatwork · #4 09-19-2003, 03:36 PM

It sounds to me like you may not have a thermostat in there.

If you run just short distances then you may not be real successful in getting the oil as hot as you need to run it to make it work.

djugurba · #5 10-26-2003, 10:35 AM

The above links to SVO/WVO folks are good. I think one that gets overlooked a lot is:
www.biofuels.ca
This is neoteric biofuels, and they've got a few nice products. I'm almost ready to begin my own conversion. Phreetogo's suggestion regarding Dana Linscott's site is a really good one too. He's a great contributor on the other grease boards.
good luck with the conversion!!
Kevin

danalinscott · #6 10-27-2003, 03:15 PM

Thanks you two for the recommendation..my website DOES have a good FAQ page..but the best place to go for good wvo info is the infopop svo discussion on the Maui biodiesel board. About halfway down on this page .

Tickells FTFTTFT is getting a bit dated...lots of research/experimentation has happened in the past few years. And that is the place to find it IMO. Easily searched archives and an active friendly membership...Kind of like this one

I always recommend installing a new thermostat if the engine seems to run cold. But the temp sending unit could be faulty...and if needed a simple design exists for inexpensive DIY 12vdc fuel heaters.

Dana

gsxr · #7 10-28-2003, 03:39 PM

I had a similar issue on my 1984 300D. Temp was barely above 40C when I bought the car. There were TWO problems. First, the thermostat was old/tired, replacing it helped somewhat... but the gauge was still below 70C. Next I replaced the sender in the cylinder head (a whopping $10), and THAT cured it completely. I knew it was getting hot as the heater worked great.

With everything working properly, an OM617 engine should NEVER get below 80C when warmed up. Mine stays at 85-90C almost all the time, year-round. Anyway, heating VO shouldn't be necessary if you're in a warm climate, and if you're in a cold climate, you'd be better off making biodiesel in cold weather. There are lots of folks running VO straight in the main tank, no heaters or other junk, as long as ambient temps are high enough (something like 50-60F or higher, I think...?)

HTH,

Greasy · #8 10-28-2003, 07:42 PM

I have been running my 83 300TD on wvo for about 30,000 miles now.
I use a kit from Neoteric fuels.
It work great, uses electric to heat the wvo.
No need for a hose in a hose deal.

Greasy · #9 11-04-2003, 07:36 PM

It cost me about $300.
I dont have pics now, but could try to take some this weekend.

linski · #10 11-04-2003, 09:46 PM

Got the wifes 240d going on svo with a 2 tank system from neoteric. Good system

Ed and Craig have lots of good info. I've had other kits, neoteric, kind of spendy, but is the best.

BoostnBenz · #11 11-04-2003, 10:20 PM

I think I'll weld my own tank up, just need to get the supplies and time to do it! I'm figuring for roughly 21gallons, 43" wide, 16.25" tall, which makes it about 7" deep.

I have a bordering stupid question, since WVO gels up much quicker than diesel is it possible to crack a line with the pressure of expansion when in really cold tempartures or is this not a problem at all? How do you know when to change over to the WVO tank? I'm thinking I'll do a line in line then run that back into the tank for the rest of the heat. Would it be safe to assume that when the coolant is 80*C that the WVO in the line is also this tempature and safe to switch over to?

Habanero · #12 11-05-2003, 08:46 AM

I wouldn't worry about cracking lines by gelled WVO. There aren't many compounds that expand when they solidify (water being the most famous exception).

As far as knowing when it is safe to switch over, that depends a lot on ambient conditions, your system, etc., etc. The best thing to do is put a temperature gauge inline near your IP. When you first switchover, watch the temperature. If it is too low for your liking, switch back to diesel for a little while, then try again.

On my 300 SDL, I watch the temperature as well as the vacuum being pulled on the fuel system to monitor switchover conditions. If I flip the switch and the vacuum takes a dive (indicating the fuel pump is having to work real hard to pull more viscous oil through the lines), I switch back for a while. My temperature gauge is not reliable enough to use as a marker, I need to get a better one first.

danalinscott · #13 11-05-2003, 09:23 AM

Jeff,

I welded my own tank together and included some threaded ports in the bottom to allow me to install a colant heated fuel pickup and tank heaters. I was also able to install a 220vac water heater elemens (run at 110vac sicne vegoil cannot absorb heat as well as water) for pre heating the wvo in very cold MN winter.

Don't forget baffles.

You may get some good info from my website:
http://danalinscott.netfirms.com/

It has a huge FAQ page as well as design files for sale which simple to assemble (from mostly off the shelf bits) vegoil conversion components and prefilter units. These are not free but should save you several times their cost.

And please feel free to contact me if you have any questions about prefitering wvo or using it as fuel. I have converted quite a few vehicles, gensets, and tractors.

The cost of fabricating your own conversion "kit" is usually 1/2 to 1/4 the cost of purchasing one ready to install. And the key to happy motoring on wvo is having a good prefiltering unit. The simplest one I have desinged and used costs less than $100 to make and easily fits in a 3'x3' garge corner. It incorporates its own resevior for filtered wvo and a simple pump so you can fill up directly out of it.

Over 30,000 miles on wvo so far and o major problems.

Dana

BoostnBenz · #14 11-05-2003, 12:41 PM

What do you guys do with the extra crud that falls out of it after settling for a few days? It seems like I heard some people say they mix it in with used oil and take it back that way.

My biggest concern is about the line in line system. How do you start and end a line in line system without any leaks? It seems like quite the achilles heal to have a rather weak or soft line on bottom pressurized with the motors coolant, what happens if you catch something on the road...!?

The baffles are surely a good point, I didn't figure that into the sheet metal needed but I'd still have enough extra to make it work. I'm thinking they are installed almost in complimentary pairs, two or three of them. The thing I wonder about in the tank is how I'm going to go about the vent, perhaps I'll add another nipple on top and just Y it with the factory tank's vent? I almost think it'll have to be a pipe going to the bottom of the tank so it doesn't slosh out with a full tank in turns.

I haven't considered the filtering unit very much yet because I don't know what is available. I'm thinking I'll use air pressure rather than pumps to move the stuff around, but this is assuming I can get an airtight barrel. I already have the filters and figure everything will be going in 4" PVC plumbing for filtering, I'll probably have a .5" hose from the reservoir tank to fill the WVO tank.

I presume this fuel vacuum gauge is something you added? This temperature gauge is just the one in the dash or you actually have a probe in line getting this data?

Thanks.

Habanero · #15 11-05-2003, 01:59 PM

The extra "crud" that comes out of my oil usually gets soaked up in newspaper and used to start my furnace. Some people compost it as well.

If I were you, I would not waste my time on hose-in-hose fuel line. Dana sells "how-to" files for making hose-on-hose line. It is much easier, probably cheaper, and works just as well.

The vacuum gauge and temperature gauge are both "add-ons". The vacuum gauge I use is actually a turbo boost gauge, so it shows pressure and vacuum. http://www.surpluscenter.com/ is a good place to get these gauges. I also have 2 automotive temperature gauges from them as well, but the ones I have are horribly inaccurate. I know there are other good sources for temp gauges around.

As you are working on this project, you should visit http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751 Most of your questions have probably already been answered at some time in the past.