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#16
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I am looking into something simular. My Camper Unimog is powered by a 617 and I hope to put a generator powered off the PTO.
Anyway.... thru lots of reading about WVO con-generation to avoid coking etc. you really need the engine to be taxed with in the upper levels of its power band. Keep that in mind when chosing a generator head. You might also want to do occasional alchohol injection to help clean the engine out too. This is also to avoid the coking issues that has arrisen with WVO generators. I would say occasional water injection but that won't cut it in your part of the world cause your water might freeze. Course I guess not if you keep the water bucket next to your engine. Either way the injection would be very easy. Setting a timer up to do the injection for you a few times a day would not be to difficult either. BTW Harbor Freight carries the large switch over boxes you can use to switch from land line to generator. You dont have to power it all by the generator either. Maybe just heaters?
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"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way". by JerryBro The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair 62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels |
#17
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usually generators run off 540 rpm at the PTO. I used a 30KW on the farm, run by a 66 BHP IH tractor. It was 66HP at the PTO, and the engine ran at 2240 rpm (governed). Now when that was
running, it was nosiey!! I could run my entire farm on the 30kw, the silo unloaders, wells, milk tank compressor, but NOT at the same time. The house was hooked up too. I had a funny occurance once when the power went out in a march snowstorm, the generator was putting out the full 30kw, but the electic motors in the barn weren't up to snuff. I went in the house for some coffee and to think about the problem, and here the wife is baking and cooking using all 6 electric burners and the oven!! When I asked her why she was using all this electricity, she said, "well, its free electricity right? we're not on the power grid..." Nonetheless, when I explained that we were burning 4 gals of diesel an hour suppying electricty to the farm, she said, "...oh, so its not REALLY free, is it..." so it goes
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71 220D 169K wrecked 83 240D 118K sweet 4 speed 91 350SDL (one of the 60% good engines) 156K 84 300d (loaner to my sister) 189K 79 300SD (partswagen) 86 420SEL partswagen 70 220d (partswagen) 68 280s GASSER!!! under construction now 85 300sd 310K miles winter beater car retired 93 300d 2.5 turbo 168K wife's car 83 280SL euro 5 speed 155K 69 250S newest project 54K |
#18
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simular
Here is a thread I started on another forum about my ideas on a 10kw generator head from Harbor Freight . PTO Generator off of my 617 powered Unimog.
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"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way". by JerryBro The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair 62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels |
#19
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Some points to consider. A generator application is typically a constant speed application, and the synchronous speed for a 60 Hz machine is 1800 or 3600 RPM. Most small generators you would find, such as Harbor Freight units or whatever, are running at 3600 RPM. You probably don't want to run your MB diesel at that speed on a continuous basis, so you would look for an 1800 rpm generator.
It will be difficult to find, I'm guessing. Second, at 1800 rpm, your engine will produce significantly less power than its full rating. I don't know the rating of a 617 but let's say it was 100 HP, for the sake of discussion. That 100 HP rating is probably at 4000 RPM or some fairly high speed. (100 HP by the way is 74.6 kW, in this case, mechanical kW). At 1800 rpm, your engine will produce significantly less power, how much less is hard to say without a set of performance curves. Let's say it was 60% less power, so you are only putting out 40 HP, or 29.8 kW. Still plenty for home use. But a generator in this size range is probably in the neighborhood of 90% efficient, which brings your net electrical output to something like 26.8 kW. Still plenty for home use, however, unless you live in Trump Castle. How much fuel would you use? Well, let's guesstimate that your fuel consumption at 40% engine load would be about 260 g/kWh. That translates to roughly 2.16 gallons per hour if you were running at full load of 26.8 kW, which you would not be. If you were running at an average load of 4 kW, which is fairly high for an typical house unless you have the oven or A/C on, you would probably burn fuel at about 300 g/kWh, but that's only about 0.4 gallons per hour. So that would give you an idea of how much fuel you would go through. If you can get very cheap or free fuel, and you could make your generator rig cheaply, it would be economic to make your own power. Then again it might be cheaper in the long run to buy a used small diesel generator to begin with rather than trying to make your own out of a 617. Disclaimer, I'm not familliar with PTO type generators. If they only require 2240 rpm as coachgeo says, this could be a reasonable proposition, i.e. to run your engine at that constant speed, however coach says the generator ran at 540 (probably 514 which is the 60 Hz synchronous speed) you would still need a gearbox between the engine and generator. Rgds, Chris W. in the diesel generator biz |
#20
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What about using the 617 transmission to bump up RPM's to match the generator.
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1983 300td 240k (down with bad tranny) 1984 300d 222k (daily driver) "Olive" 1997 GMC K2500 105k (sled dog limo) "The scenery in ANWR is as spectacular as the Grand Canyon and the wildlife is more impressive." |
#21
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Wouldn' it be better to run the engine at some speed close to the top of the torque curve (ie 2400rpm on an OM617) and not the HP curve? Then, gear the final output accordingly to match the specific needs of the generator.
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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm. Last edited by R Leo; 05-05-2004 at 10:42 PM. |
#22
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Solid Oil
Something no one else mentioned is that the oil you are going to be collecting from the businesses is going to be solid at those outside temps.
I live in Northern California and when the temps drop to the 40's it starts to become an issue with the oil solidifying. Something to think about anyway. Stephen
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85 300D 305K miles WVO(105K so far), Mine 82 300SD 235K miles BIO-D, Wifes 96 F250 SC PSD 4X4 285K MILES BIO-D, Ours 89 BRONCO 182K MILES sold Finally Compression Ignition Only! |
#23
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Quote:
I would still need a peak capacity of maybe 20 or 25 kWh so that I have plenty of juice if the hot water tank is on while I'm cooking and it's -30 outside. As for the WVO solidifying, I think the garage the powerplant would be in would stay sufficiently warm from the engine heat to prevent this. sulely this would be a fun project, but do I really want to haul 100 gal. of WVO per week? I could collect it throughout summer, but I would still need about 1500 gal. to get through the winter. Something to think about. This thread is turning out to be much more informative than I expected.
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Denis 1979 300TD 189,000 Miles, now running WVO with a home-made 2 tank conversion 1974 230 Gasser 189,000 Miles, For Sale 1961 VW Microbus 162,000 Miles 1961 Ford Fairlane 500, 53,900 original miles 1951 Oliver Super 55 Tractor 2002 Chocolate Lab |
#24
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Quote:
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Denis 1979 300TD 189,000 Miles, now running WVO with a home-made 2 tank conversion 1974 230 Gasser 189,000 Miles, For Sale 1961 VW Microbus 162,000 Miles 1961 Ford Fairlane 500, 53,900 original miles 1951 Oliver Super 55 Tractor 2002 Chocolate Lab |
#25
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The trouble with.....
The trouble with creating your own electricity is that setting up the diesel gererator is going to cost you. I have been trying to create a cost justification to compete with the $0.07/Kwh I pay for electricity. So far I have nice collection of diesel engines for about $1,000 and I am still paying .07/Kwh from he utility.
My orginal plan was small diesel DC generator burning (free) WVO to charge a battery pack. Thus only running it every seven days to charge the batteries. This has led me down the path to renewable energies and co-generation for heating, etc. And I am still paying .07/Kwh.. I have found some really good information to pass along to anyone interested. Great book on batteries, DC to AC inverters and creating your own powerplant. "The complete Battery Book" by Richard A Perez. The Home Pwer Magazine: http://www.homepower.com/ Co Generation: http://www.madhousers.org/cogen1.shtml Generators and a nice commercial cogeneration unit: http://www.polarpowerinc.com/products/generators/cogenset.htm Discussion group on bio-diesel generation, etc: http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/index.php The more I learn the farther away from creating my own power, and I am still paying .07/Kwh.... |
#26
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Artificially low power costs make it difficult to justify investing in your own power sources.
In Western Australia, there is the option of a Time of Use tarrif, which has Peak rates of 18c (Aus) /KWh I have plans of installing a water cooled Petters single cyl direct injection diesel, spinning an auto alternator fast, with external diode pack and regulator to get a nominal 75V to float batteries on my grid connected solar power system. In winter, the evening peak is from 5pm - 9pm, so I would be able to generate up to 10KWh with my 2.5KVA invertor in that time. So, what should I do with my $1.80? Your suggestions are welcome.
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Tony from West Oz. Fatmobile 3 84 300D 295kkm Silver grey/Blue int. 2 tank WVO - Recipient of TurboDesel engine. Josephine '82 300D 390kkm White/Palamino int. Elizabeth '81 280E, sporting a '79 300D engine. Lucille '87 W124 300D non-turbo 6 cylinder OM603, Pearl Grey with light grey interior Various parts cars including 280E, 230C & 300D in various states of disassembly. |
#27
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Re: The trouble with.....
Quote:
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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm. |
#28
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Tony, sounds like you have a good thing started. I have just picked up two lister air cooled diesels for my alternator / battery idea, and a 4 cyl 190D stationary motor (1959 vintage)... As far as your 1.80? If it were me, I would keep it as a token of the monies that didn't go to the utilites... Ignoring the fact that it cost me 18.00 to save 1.80...
R Leo.... I've been told that more than once.. |
#29
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Lister engine instead of a PTO on a 617
I have considered using an old Lister diesel engine in a genset. I don't have the links handy but search for Lister or Listeroid. They used to be made in England but now a company in India has started production. They come in 1 and 2 cylinder models with VERY large flywheels. The flywheels are what makes them work well as they handle high starting loads with no stalling. When I was growing up in West Texas they were used extensively in the oil fields. Some ran natural gas, others diesel. VERY simple engines that are made to be self-serviced. A Lister suitable for whole house needs can be had for around $2,500 as I recall. They easily run on SVO, WVO, bioD, Kerosene, and even waste motor oil. I hope to have something like this within the year. The fuel usage is low enough that I believe that I can run my whole house for about $200/month.
clint
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81 300D N/A 130K miles (Nelly) 87 300D Turbo 80K miles (The Scalded Dog...because it runs like a scalded dog) 95 e320 Wagon 104K 2003 Sprinter 47K miles. 1999 Tandem Bicycle One beautiful low miles wife (who likes diesels) (that's my wife holding the sign) My son and I fixing Nelly's odometer |
#30
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There are many Indian Listeroid manufacturers. The trick is getting good quality, as QC is often hit or miss amongst the various manufacturers. I too have been wanting to get one for powering my home. A 25/2 can drive a 15KW genset, easily enough to power my complete central A/C Florida home. They have been successfully run on WVO (for free, my impetus for wanting one - free electric). And at 650 RPM, they will last forever. There's only one problem: the government (read: EPA) has pretty much cut off the possibility to import them. A couple of good Lister[oid] sites, including WVO use:
http://www.utterpower.com/listeroi.htm http://www.listeroid.com/index.html |
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