Compressor just seized 82 300TD - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dmorrison · #1 06-16-2005, 12:19 AM

My wife was putting the car into the garage this evening. I had installed a jump cable on the dryer temp switch to make the aux fan run continuously, so the car was sitting in the driveway.
She pulled the car about 1/2 way into the garage and realized the AC was off. She turned it on and the AC compressor belt squealed and the engine quit. Told her to try starting it and it really did not want to. Turned off the AC and it fired up. Pulled it into the garage and then I started it with the AC off. Reved it up to 2000 RPM and turned on the AC, she didn't like that.
The compressor is toast. I still have the compressor I took off almost 2 years ago. It had not failed. I'll open the system and see if the compressor seized or spit trash into the system. I'll have to flush the high pressure hose and see what comes out. If it is clean ( I hope I hope) then I'll install the other compressor and flush the lines, install a new dryer and see whats up.
Just one of those summer days in Texas. Really start putting a load on the AC and that is when its going to quit on you.

It is a little upsetting that I went through the entire rebuild and the compressor craps out after 1.5 years. it was not a rebuilt It was brand new. But I wonder if the oil lube hole theory applied to this compressor.

This post

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=908382&posted=1#post908382

Discusses the the oil port issue. I will look at both units and let you know what I find. The new unit (1.5 years old and not a rebuilt) was purchased from ACKITS.com. The old unit was installed at the dealer in 1995 and was a "Mercedes" unit.

Dave

Brian Carlton · #2 06-16-2005, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmorrison

It is a little upsetting that I went through the entire rebuild and the compressor craps out after 1.5 years. it was not a rebuilt It was brand new. But I wonder if the oil lube hole theory applied to this compressor.

I doubt it will make you feel any better, but the exact same thing happened to me when I owned the W123. Spent about $800. getting the system running properly at the indy including a new compressor and expansion valve and dryer.
System flushed properly.

It lasted two years and the compressor seized. Had to spend another $700. all over again at another indy.

First indy commented that they sometimes do not do so well because of the lack of lubrication due to their orientation. I wonder if the front plate position has something to do with this???

t walgamuth · #3 06-16-2005, 12:30 AM

i am wondering about conversions for the 123s to anything other than the original delco. a more modern japanese compressor sounds attractive... any body know of a setup like that?

vintage air has a conversion plate to replace the old york compressors with a modern japanese one.

JimmyL · #4 06-16-2005, 12:51 AM

Hey Dave,
I was driving in Colleyville today without AC.

Wow it was hot today. I was getting 4 white hubcaps at Don's place, and also an IP shutoff valve. My AC compressor is also seized, and the pulley is cracked. I'm trying to decide which way to go with the AC also. I don't know AC work, so will have to have someone do it. Ouch$$$

dannym · #5 06-16-2005, 08:13 AM

The "Black Death" sucks.
If you have R-12 you can flush the condenser. If you converted to 134A then the condenser should be replaced.

The reason is the R-12 condenser is a single pass while the 134 compressor is a multi-pass and usually will not flush properly.

If you keep having trouble you may want to consider an in-line filter.

Danny

leathermang · #6 06-16-2005, 08:22 AM

If Black Death has happened to your last compressor the MB AC FSM says the metal manifold at the compressor must be replaced.... that it is not flushable...

I do think that flushing the condensor should be done out of the car so that gravity can be neutralized by turning it around during the process...for larger particles....

I wonder if anyone is able to do an ' autopsy ' on siezed compressors ?

dmorrison · #7 06-16-2005, 11:42 AM

Once I remove the compressor I can determine if it was a black death or a bearing seize. I have a parallell flow condensor so I must replace it under the black death senario. Black death is usually a result of not removing the mineral oil and adding the ester oil for R134a.
My system was completely rebuilt with all new parts except the manifold hose. The old AC system was rebuilt due to an evaporator leak not a system failure. Every components was new except the manifold hose and it was completely flushed with mineral spirits and then AC flush.
Synthetic oil was used, the proper amount. The system was evacuated to 29 inches for 3 hours and R134a added. I did have a schrader valve fail and all the R134a was lost. I replaced the valves and added 2 oz of oil, that was the amount I "figured" I lost with the vavle failure, the system was evacuated again and R134a added. I did not replace the dryer. I kept some freon in the system by capping the schrader valve with the dirt cap and then when I had the new schrader valves I quickly installed them and evacuated the system right away so I felt the dryer was exposed to "air" just a longs as when you initially install the dryer.
So hopefully this is a bearing failure not the black death. Can't get to it today or tomorrow, Flying. So I'll find out Saturday.

Dave

dmorrison · #8 06-16-2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

If Black Death has happened to your last compressor the MB AC FSM says the metal manifold at the compressor must be replaced.... that it is not flushable...

I do think that flushing the condenser should be done out of the car so that gravity can be neutralized by turning it around during the process...for larger particles....

I wonder if anyone is able to do an ' autopsy ' on seized compressors ?

I am aware of the manuals advisory about not flushing the manifold hose. I'm trying to figure out why? It is a very large diameter inner hose and if out of the car can be manipulated to flush quite easily. All the other components can be flushed but not this hose. Again, just trying to figure that one out. when I flushed mine I did not have any particles come out of the hose. Again the hose did not "require" flushing due to black death.

Dave

leathermang · #9 06-16-2005, 11:51 AM

I may have used the wrong words...or that crazy translation deal may have popped up... I do not think I am referring to an hose or hose end.. I think they meant a metal " manifold" next to the compressor...
However, I will check my AC manual as soon as I can..
Greg

leathermang · #10 06-16-2005, 11:55 AM

About the autopsy... it seems you feel if it is bearings that you would be looking at lubrication.... and that could have two or more items in the list... the 134a not moving it around like it should.. or the wrong amount in due to more loss than you knew to replace...
but how about if the bearing failure is due to higher working pressures due to the 134a... any way to analyse that ?
And then there is that compressor orientation deal mentioned.... but that would surprise me.... I think the R4 can be mounted in any clock position...

boneheaddoctor · #11 06-16-2005, 12:03 PM

Assuming it wasn't overcharged and tried to compress liquid refridgerant.

jcyuhn · #12 06-16-2005, 12:14 PM

Bummer Dave. You'll have it up and running in no time.

On compressors it's a crapshoot. I had an 88 dollar rebuilt R4 last 7 years in a 123.

I have read about low quality brand new R4 compressors - Chinese knockoffs, perhaps. Where did you source the compressor?

- JimY

dmorrison · #13 06-16-2005, 02:32 PM

boneheaddoctor

Well the system was not over charged. Gauge pressures were normal and the system was running fine since I installed it a year ago last spring. If anything I think I may have had a small leak. Vent temps rising when at a light. They rose about 10 degrees. That is why I was setting up the aux fan to run continuously. That is how I ran it last summer. It helped the system condense the freon vapor. This brings us into the idea of a second receiver/dryer for liquid storage and vent temps remaining high at lights, but that is another post!!

leathermang

Actually I'm just hoping its not black death!!!

Yes the manual does warn about replacing the manifold hose

http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/R102011584ACM.JPG

if the compressor is replaced "owing to blocking". Again the previous system did not fail. That does not mean that debris was not in the old manifold hose. I did however flush it quite extensively.
When I flushed the manifold hose I used about 1/2 gallon of mineral spirits and then about a quart of AC flush. I used a under coating gun which I had modified for my sons Mustang . I had attached a long flexible hose to the tip and was able to insert the tip about 16 inches into the manifold hose. I was convinced this was a very complete flush. Maybe not.

Opening the system will tell all.

Dave

edited for boneheaddoctors post.

Thinking about the system pressure, not a overcharge, it may be true that the pressures were high. Last year I ran the car with the aux fan operating whenever the car was on. This brings the pressures down while operating with R134a. This year I had not installed the switch jump wire in the receiver/dryer line so I may have been running excessive pressures on the high side. I'll have to think about this some more.

leathermang · #14 06-16-2005, 02:41 PM

I remembered it because I thought it odd that they did not consider it cleanable... or that was my interpretation of why they said it had to be replaced...
Perhaps there is a screen filter in it or something like that ? They could have mentioned that if there was... maybe they just wanted to sell new ones at any opportunity... and knew that was not going to be an aftermarket item...

The first time someone has a Black Death and replaces one of these someone needs to carefully split it open and do an autopsy on IT....

dmorrison · #15 06-16-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I remembered it because I thought it odd that they did not consider it cleanable... or that was my interpretation of why they said it had to be replaced...
Perhaps there is a screen filter in it or something like that ? They could have mentioned that if there was... maybe they just wanted to sell new ones at any opportunity... and knew that was not going to be an aftermarket item...

The first time someone has a Black Death and replaces one of these someone needs to carefully split it open and do an autopsy on IT....

Possible but then why don't they replace all hoses. The R12 condenser is a serpentine setup and debris will flush through it into the high pressure hose to the R/D. Or maybe they find that it is just in the manifold hose. could be hot metal parts that will embed into the rubber and dislodge later.

With this build up I think a inline filter in the high pressure line to the condenser will be a necessity, I was actually going to do that to protect the parallel flow condenser, but didn't. ACKITS.com advised that the PF condenser must be replace in a compressor failure, flushing is ineffective due to the small size of the condenser tubes.

Dave

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
1982 300TD R134a conversion with parallel flow condensor update!!	dmorrison	Diesel Discussion	66	07-28-2012 10:38 PM
300TD Rear Suspension	Swampy	Diesel Discussion	56	05-02-2007 09:33 AM
'79 300TD sells for over $6000	dieseldiehard	Diesel Discussion	3	06-05-2005 01:42 PM
Questions about cylinder head/head gasket replacement on a 1987 300TD?	swogee	Diesel Discussion	7	06-09-2004 09:15 AM
240d ---> 300td	Muddin	Diesel Discussion	7	04-30-2004 01:42 PM