Problems with 2007 up, low sulfur fuel. All by 2010. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dkveuro · #1 07-07-2006, 12:07 PM

I am looking for definitive information on the latest fuel, sulfur levels.
I am getting customers ( With Dodge Cummins.) ...asking why they see labels on fuel pumps that say " Not to be used in 2007 or later vehicles."

I have read the latest EPA papers, but am finding no commentary from the vehicle makers.
I have reassured those of them with the old inline diesel pumps on the up to 1996 Cummins that this is fuel they can use without problems.

Apparently manufactures will decline warranty claims if the 2007 up engines have been run on regular diesel fuels.

Bosch and Dodge seem to have little or no info' on the sulfur levels. What they do have to say is very non committal.
Dodge say the later V44 pumps where supposed to run on low ppm fuel and Bosch says they don't have any problems to report.

The inline I/P on the Mercedes is an 'all fuel ' pump and when I go to Europe there are thousands of diesels on 1990 and earlier running just fine on
very low sulfur fuels.

So if anyone has a link or two that addresses this problem in depth I should be very grateful as will my customers.
Up to now, I have checked all the 24 valve engines for correct fuel pressure, pressures below 8 psi is the reason V44 pumps die.
( actually...the electronics over heat and fry with low fuel flow through the pump...bad lift pumps and restricted tank pick up is major cause. )

dk.

.

Tomlinson · #2 07-07-2006, 01:17 PM

ULSD is being intorduced at the refiner level now and will be at the retail level by oct 1. The 2007 models have pollution controls designed to work with ULSD. High suplhur diesel will plug these pollution control units.

Thank you
Gary Tomlinson
Agri-Green Biodiesel Inc.
Sparwood, B.C. Canada
250.425.0777

dkveuro · #3 07-07-2006, 01:52 PM

Thank you Gary....I understand the plugging of the particulate traps on newer vehicles.

Is the aromatic reduction still being going to be a problem for older I/P seals ?

.

F18 · #4 07-07-2006, 01:53 PM

As Gary said all 2007 models have pollution control systems designed for the new ULSD (15ppm sulfur) use only. Cars sold in Europe already have had this system in place because of their strict fuel & emission regulations over there.

Older diesels (prior to 07) can run on anything, LSD (500ppm sulfur), ULSD (15ppm), Off Road/Farm Diesel (+1500ppm sulfur). They are just trying to educate the consumer with the pump stickers. Its similar to the transition of gasoline from leaded to unleaded back in the early 70's. You needed to know what fuel your vehicle was designed for. If you ran a newer unleaded 70's vehicle, with a cataliytic converter on the old leaded fuel you stood a big chance of ruining or clogging the catalytic converter. The same applys to the newer 07 diesels emission systems which were designed to function on the new ULSD fuels only.

What I am curious about is if these systems on 07 models will be alright with BioDiesel / ULSD blends??

Maroon 300D · #5 07-07-2006, 01:56 PM

If I fill my car up with LSD will I crash into a pink elephant?

yucka yucka yucka

F18 · #6 07-07-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

If I fill my car up with LSD will I crash into a pink elephant?

yucka yucka yucka

No....but probably a rainbow of melting crayons! As J. Hendrix once sang "Are you Experienced?"

Mismost · #7 07-07-2006, 03:21 PM

If I fill my car up with LSD will I crash into a pink elephant?

yucka yucka yucka

What a rip off! WHERE ARE THE FLASH BACKS THEY ALL TOLD US WOULD COME?
Jimmy Buffett said that.

boy, this thread took a drug related nose dive.

deuce · #8 07-07-2006, 03:28 PM

I love this website! I actually took this picture last night to post today because I was confused about the stickers as well. What I gather from the posts is that the diesel fuel we've been using to this point is LSD and the stickers aren't indicating a new fuel but are clarifying the existing fuel so we'll be edumacated when ULSD is released in the fall...right

F18 · #9 07-07-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuce

I love this website! I actually took this picture last night to post today because I was confused about the stickers as well. What I gather from the posts is that the diesel fuel we've been using to this point is LSD and the stickers aren't indicating a new fuel but are clarifying the existing fuel so we'll be edumacated when ULSD is released in the fall...right

Thats exactly it....and it also releases the dispenser / fuel station from any future legal claims by a consumer with an 07 model diesel because the sticker is considered "public notice". It really is the most meager way the petroleum industry could educate the consumer without spending much of their money.....Believe me...some high powered team of legals on retainer by the fuel companies are keeping themselves covered before the first drop of USLD is availalble and the new European spec. diesels hit the US shores.

shoe · #10 07-07-2006, 04:58 PM

Actually fuel dispensers were required to have those stickers by the EPA and other federal agencies. The EPA required all diesel fuel dispensers public and private to clearly post what type of diesel fuel was being dispensed by June 1st 2006. Yes this is also for the conusmers benefit so the owners of 07 diesel vehicles will not put LSD fuel in their tanks. Right now I do not know of any refiners that are producing ULSD since there are not any newer emmisions compliant vehicles being sold yet. Furthermore there is no consensus as to how older diesels will handle the new ULSD we are all hoping they will do just fine you can bet there will be a flurry of additives to hit the market claiming to solve any problems that crop up with older vehicles

POS · #11 07-07-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mismost

WHERE ARE THE FLASH BACKS THEY ALL TOLD US WOULD COME?

I'm driving my flashbacks.

F18 · #12 07-07-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS

I'm driving my flashbacks.

This Baby Boomer's flash-backs are all flashed-out at this point. I am now relegated into drinking a Sam Adams real fast....while sitting in my surround sound game room and listing to re-digitized CD recordings of "VooDoo Child" and my all time favorite "Inda Gata Davita" sp? Life use to be simpler....not necessarily better....but simpler..

Mustang_man298 · #13 07-07-2006, 06:45 PM

So, if I'm reading all of this right, the only reason they are even putting sulphur in the fuel is just for wear reduction? Forms a buildup layer similar to the lead in old gasoline did? Does that mean this new fuel is gonna make our oldies wear out faster?

Stevo · #14 07-07-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoe

you can bet there will be a flurry of additives to hit the market claiming to solve any problems that crop up with older vehicles

My new and proven "Yellow Jacket", Sulfur additive for older diesels will be available soon. One treatment of this yellow miracle additive pre fuel up and your old 123 will run like new

TimFreeh · #15 07-07-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoe

.....Right now I do not know of any refiners that are producing ULSD since there are not any newer emmisions compliant vehicles being sold yet.

Several of the VALERO stations in Dover, DE have stickers that indicate they are currently dispensing ULSD fuel. I've used two tanks of ULSD and noticed no fuel leaks or performance differences.