High tech injection system for the 616, 617 - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #31 01-14-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

No, you would have lower power and reduced efficiency because of the reduced squish area between the head and piston. If you want to lower the compression ratio you would have to machine out the bowl of the piston.

I think machining out the tops of the pistons is out. They really aren't all that thick to start with.

Tom W

#32 01-14-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patbob

My neighbor's buddies planed the head down on one of their gas engines to increase the compresson ratio. They got it up to around 11 to 1 (and no, they can't run normal gas in it anymore).

I'd think piston head changes and changing the distance between the head and block would be equivalant compressionwise. I find these littel nuances facinating, so if you have any pointers to further reading I can do to educate myself on why not, I'd really appreciate it.

Planing the OM617 head would not do anything, the head is a flat surface except for the prechamber poking out. Most g@ssers heads have a combustion bowl in the head. Machining their head reduces the size of that chamber and increases compression. The OM617 head is flat so you would just be reducing the thickness of the metal.

#33 01-14-2008, 01:23 PM

Compare. HEMI on the left (the same type the 280E is), OM61x on the right.

lupin..the..3rd · #34 01-14-2008, 04:47 PM

http://vegburner.co.uk/DIcombustion.html

Shows what a DI piston looks like. Has a deep "bowl" in it vs. an IDI piston which is relatively flat on top by comparison.

There's no way you can machine that bowl into an IDI piston. No way, no how, it is not possible. So forget that idea.

You could have some custom pistons made up, but then for the same $$$$ you might as well do a full CDI engine swap - much easier and you know the engine is going to run.

rwthomas1 · #35 01-14-2008, 05:05 PM

The key to anything like this is availability of parts. Sure you could import a complete MB CDI drivetrain from Europe but at what cost and who would work on it to figure out codes, etc. when things go wrong. And they will. The next option is to consider a swap from an available chassis here in the US. There have to be some wrecked E320 CDI's around. Is it possible to swap that entire setup? Or a Sprinter setup? I've even heard told of guys turning VW TDI's 90degrees and bolting them up to regular RWD transmissions.... Focus on what is most available and go from there. RT

Hatterasguy · #36 01-14-2008, 07:16 PM

What about a VW TDI engine then? Thats probably the most logical choice if someone wants to make a more powerfull 240D. With some mods you can put down a lot more power than any 617.

lupin..the..3rd · #37 01-14-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

What about a VW TDI engine then? Thats probably the most logical choice if someone wants to make a more powerfull 240D. With some mods you can put down a lot more power than any 617.

Thats a good point. Of the 1.9 TDI's here in the US, the 1z and Ahu motors have minimal electronics and are popular for use in swaps.

Over on TDIclub.com there's an "engine swap" forum and currently someone is putting one into a Saturn, and someone else has put one into a Volvo 240.

You'd of course be looking at some custom fabrication for things like motor mounts, exhaust, and bell housing adapter for the transmission.

Hatterasguy · #38 01-14-2008, 11:19 PM

Well it depends how mechanicaly inclined you are and how big your shop is. You need to have the skill and will.

t walgamuth · #39 01-14-2008, 11:32 PM

There was someone on here a year or so ago that was trying to wedge a vw diesel into a 123 td, iirc. He had it sitting in the car iirc but it looked like he was headed for trouble as some of the details weren't quite worked out yet. (the infamous sump interference, iirc)

It seems he had the vw steeply tilted in an effort to clear sump and crossmember without cutting anything. I seem to remember he was headed for trouble on the gear ratio too in the rear end.

I wonder what happened to that?

Tom W

Gurkha · #40 01-16-2008, 09:21 AM

Has been done, Force Motors India which is a MB partner here sold their G Wagen clone called Gurkha with OM616 turbo in Germany. With latest BOSCH pump, it passed stringent Euro-IV requirments.

t walgamuth · #41 01-16-2008, 10:28 AM

Is it feasible to transfer that technology to an old engine?

Tom

Tymbrymi · #42 01-16-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Is it feasible to transfer that technology to an old engine?

As stated before there is probably a new head, pistons, injectors, etc. So it is possible... you just have to make the financial decision of is it really worth replacing all those parts...

#43 01-16-2008, 01:58 PM

And as stated before, it would probably be several thousand $$$ cheaper to ship a crate engine over here than it would be to convert an existing engine.

Personally, I'd like to get one of those FM OM605's.

Gurkha · #44 01-16-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Is it feasible to transfer that technology to an old engine?

Tom

Force motorshttp://www.forcemotors.com also converted the OM616 into a turbo DI engine, they changed the pistons, cam, head and IP. It passes euro-III. Another Indian company Mahindra took an ancient Simpson diesel motor which they had the license to manufacture and made it into state of the art CRDI engine with help from AVL Austria. From a measly 38bhp engine the 2.6L motor now makes a nice torquey 115bhp. So with proper implementation of technology, it can be done.

Daver · #45 01-16-2008, 11:27 PM

Oh come on guys......just screw the 240 fenders on a new Mercedes Diesel....Problem solved. Dave