Yes, but the system will not hold a charge now. I would replace the receiver/drier automatically along with all seals. Seals that are shot, a very likely possibility, mean the system is already opened up. Minnesota is a climate with vast temperatures and high humidity. I would replace this in my car. I replaced anything in doubt when I repaired mine.

I don't think we have established that it will not hold a charge at this point.
The receiver dryer should not be installed until everything is set up to do the vacuum IMMEDIATELY after it is installed.

Knightrider966,
Aren't you worried that agreeing with my AC philosophy will ruin both yours and my image ?

I don't disagree with your philosophy entirely. Any service done to an AC system must be done right. Leaks, poor service, and any questionable parts must be serviced and/or repaired properly before adding any refrigerant.

I just couldn't disagree more on refrigerant types and the risks with both. I find no logic in the EPA position that HC's are dangerous because they can catch fire and HFC's are safer because they won't, even though HFC's will cause permanent brain damage if inhaled in quantities as low as 4 parts per million. This stuff has no smell at this concentration, so there is no warning from exposure and by the time you realise something is wrong, it's too late!

HC's have a heavy odorant added to them. By the time you smell a problem, the gas concentration has to be 25 to 30 times higher to ignite. This odorant is my safety factor and one I can live with. But I would never recommend anyone just pour in some refrigerant and viola! everything works perfect regardless of what type.

The chemical composition of Autofrost looks promising enough to consider when I'm fully licensed because it requires a permit and it won't burn or deplete the ozone layer, the original reason I tried Envirosafe. Whether we like it or not R12 is going to be gone at some point and we must move on from there. It was my favourite for this too.

Knightrider,

Why would you suggest he replace the orings and not even mention flushing the system.. not logical. If you open it up at all the joints there is no reason not to flush before putting it back together.

Why in the world do you not already have your license ? It is an open book test... I think you will be able to pass it....and if not you can take it again....

I am thinking that if you were required to study or find the answers to the test I might not have to spoon feed you some of the facts about the ( illegal in many states and unnecessarily dangerous ) HC refrigerants . But you can't resist promoting them....while failing to mention the actual drawbacks...it is the failing to present a balanced picture that requires me to post in reply to them... but I have plenty of electrons left in my computer... and I am sure that people will learn more about refrigerants with you promoting them than otherwise...

So at this point, it seems I need to find out if the system is leaking.

Point taken on doing it right. I will most likely find a shop to pull vacuum on it after we figure out what is wrong (if they don't charge near the cost of a good pump! Then I would just purchase one)

Thanks for the link. I just skimmed over it but will read it more in depth in a bit.

Can you be a little more specific on the 'nitrogen bottle'? Perhaps a link? Don't really know what you are referring to?

So is this the next step? Get a Nitrogen bottle and put some R22 in it? Then check for leaks?

That seems to be a good place to start... if you are into going to the bottom and coming up with orings, flushing ,etc it is almost certainly going to last longer and do better in the long run... the cost of the orings is almost nothing... part number 100 from Carlisle auto air for my 123.... but getting under the dash and to all the joints is some work... but there are not very many joints... that helps... I have no way of knowing your interest level or philosophy on this stuff...
You should be able to rent a regular AC vacuum at any normal rental store.. probably need it two or three weekends.... do a step , take it back and get it when you know you are able to use it again...
A nitrogen bottle is the same as an Acetylene tank, an oxygen tank, etc... it is metal ..probably four feet tall or less... I tried to find the sweet spot on price and amount it holds... seems mine cost $135 ... refills are cheap... and you may never need to refill it in your lifetime... you can also use it to fight fires if you have the right nozzle arrangement..
Yes, if you do not want to go down to the orings then the next step is to check for leaks... of course if you find them at any orings you will need to do that. You can RENT the refrigerant detector also...
This is one of those jobs which often is two steps forward, three backwards, etc... if you do it correctly and shoot for longevity....which I do think is worth the effort.
If you are willing to go down to the orings..or find you need to... then we should discuss Flushing...

http://youracauthority.com/acterms/AC-Flush-Flushing-AC-Systems.shtml

http://www.aircondition.com/tech/

If I had to explain the entire procedure here, there would be no room for you to post! Because our air down here is so dry, about 3% humidity, flushing would optional AFTER checking for leaks. Flushing is not recommended section by section, but the entire system at the same time. Checking for leaks is a must do since we are starting over and there is no point to being flushed if your evaporator is bad and needs to be replaced for instance! It happens and the whole idea here is this man is going by what he has been told by a previous owner who is tring to accurately remember, which is questionable at best. There is a reason that his system has been out of service for so long after being retrofitted for R134A and the FACT that someone spent so much money here and never bothered to maintain it worries me because this is not logical unless something really went wrong when the rest of the car seems to be a good buy!

Frankly, my first test would be to replace the O rings and since these are cheap and then add dye to the system along with dried air from a compressor to 140 lbs. and wait. Check for leaks then flush the system! Does it sound logical to you that someone would spend about $900 on a newer compressor and more on related retrofit service costing upwards of $1000 easily and letting it go? These cars have had old evaporators fail and this requires removal of the dash to replace which could be one reason. I hope someone just got lazy here, but neglect is just as bad.

You spoon feeding me the facts on unecessarily dangerous and illegal HC's are not necessary. I never said these were completely safe, but you conviently fail to mention the more dangerous side effects of HFC's and this man will have children in the car!!!! I don't trust the government to tell me what is safe because the special interest lobbyists need to protect their corporate partners, the same way the FAA has gotten so cozy with the Airlines that planes which should have been inspected frueqently have their paperwork forged and had missed saftey inspections for more than 2 1/2 years! Or are you not watching the news? You are spoon feeding everyone who reads your posts based on your own biases because you believe what you are being spoon fed! The government is supposed to be impartial, but they no longer are and 99% of users from this forum see through this even if they agree with you on your position on HC's.

These agencies are no longer unbiased! Senator Barry Goldwater told us what would happen if we let corporate business interests get to comfy with our elected representatives and now it's happening, but like the frog in the boiling water, it's happening so slowly the frog is not even aware he is being cooked alive! These same agencies are now promoting what they are told to using the same scientific basis the liberals use on global warming to promote their own agenda! DuPont has spent MILLIONS in Congress to get their way and protect their patent rights. What is happening now is very reminiscent of what happened in the early 1900's on the west coast with transportation, both rail and stage. Both of these Monopolies lobbied our government to regulate others carriers and competitors out of business so they could then provide whatever crappy service and products they saw fit because competition was against the law. Business and landowners as well as cattle ranchers only had one means of getting their product to market, a railraod that ran on it's own schedule with no regard to custiomer needs and a stage that ran when it felt like it with no regard for customer needs, because there was no longer ANYONE to force them to live up to their agreements AND they were free to charge whatever the market would bear! This is what the head of the FAA was recently busted for and he put passenger safety behind what the airlines wanted! Even a member of congress asked during the recent investigation "What does it take to get fired at the FAA?" Because the head of the FAA got to cover his ass and is still employed earning our tax dollars in another position.

Don't you think you and I would be FIRED ON THE SPOT and blacklisted for this in the private sector? I'm not just encouraging others to look at alternatives seriously with a little common sense, I'm hoping to STIMULATE others toDARE TO THINK FOR YOURSELVES INCLUDING YOU! iF YOU WONT, NO ONE, INCLUDING ME WILL EVER CONVINCE YOU OTHERWISE.

Graple, I am only going to include replies to Knightrider as they affect you if I can... His assumptions are a little over the top for me... I am not convinced that it is lack of refrigerant that is causing your problem. Reading zero on both sides of the gauge leaves open the possibility that you did not open it correctly... research ' backseat' valves on that manifold and check again. IF this was an electrical problem instead of loss of refrigerant for the PO then clearly the testing and work necessary to fix it will be different... and LESS ... So One step at a time and go slow enough that you are sure what looks like results are in fact that....
When I describe flushing the system, for instance, I am taking the steps directly out of the Mercedes Factory Shop manual for Air conditioning... that is just the way I am... some have complained about that orientation... I believe that Mercedes hundreds of millions of dollars in R and D...and their obsession with quality makes that the best bet to believe.
It is not easy doing this long distance and ' blind'... but if you do plenty of research on standard AC sites like the ones I have cited... and then ask questions specific to your MB I think we can get you set up for cool AC and a long lived system. Your reading on standard and general AC sites will keep me from having to identify and argue against some of what Knightrider posts...which will keep the thread MUCH shorter... LOL

Seeing if the system is leaking is where I would start. This is the most logical and LEAST expensive area to begin and will be the basis for most common problems. M comments to leathermang I hope amuse you, but I want you to be safe here, especially with children in the car because their safety depends on the bolt behind the wheel! Think logically! Would you put a lot of money into this and let it go? There are only 2 reasons I can think of, someone got lazy and careless or something happened that would require a lot more time and money. Some people give up on the system entirely when the evaporator goes, which doesn't happen often but others here on this forum have had to replace theirs. This is the unit that looks like a little radiator on the INSIDE of the cat that removes the heat and delivers cold air.

This part is a pain to change because so much of the dash has to come out to get to it and the inside of your car looks like a war zone when all is removed! However, in moist climates, moisture and debri can clog up an evaporator causing the aluminum to corrode and leak because it's packed and clogged up with dirt, ;eaves and adding moisture will make metals rot. This will let gas from your AC system into the Passenger compartment of your car when the occupants can breathe it. 7 deaths from R134A have already occured in the US. I don't want you or your kids to become more of them. If your new compressor is designed for R134A, then even I would have serious thoughts about using anything else.

But be warned! There is one case where a man tried to fill his own system with R134A in an eclosed outbuilding garage without making sure everything was working properly AND in good condition. After putting more than 2 cans of R134A into it, a hose exploded which should have been replaced and the concentration of R134A he was breathing has left him with PERMANENT brain damage! He is on disability, can no longer work and has to have his meals made for him and should be in convalescent care, because of breathing R134A. This is currently in litigation, so it was pretty much removed from the wire service. Essentially, he is now in a semi vegetative state!

I may be a risk taker. I hang glide through the Grand Canyon, was back on a motorcycle after being hit by a car that sent me 25 feet into the air where I laneded on the other side of the highway only to be run over by a black Hyudai going the other way that couldn't stop, made a device that would allow me to shift gears on my BMW R100RS while my leg was still in a cast once I recovered from being in traction for two weeks! Now I skydive out of airplanes with a parachute and the left side of my body is held to gether with metals and most people would never notice. I still run, walk my dogs and go horseback riding in the Superstitions with a body that basically is living tissue over a metal endoskeleton from my left hip down!

At the same time, I have never been in a serious accident I was responsible for, have a 23 year driving history of not one moving violation or even a parking infraction and am a commercially licensed Class A truck driver with endorsements! I'm not afraid of getting hurt, I guess, but the idea of being brain dead and having to have someone feed me and change my clothes or wipe my A$$, well i would rather be dead! Niow you know why I use HC's! A fire has some personal responsibility in it and warnig when something goes wrong because the odorant in HC's is strong like the odorant in Propane or Natural gas, that's true. Envirosafe has an odorant like a combo of smelling salts and pine tar, but it is not for everyone. Now you know the difference between me and Leathermang.

Just be carefull with your system, inadequate care regardless of what you use for refrigerant has it's costs and consequences!

In the meantime, Leathermang and I will probably hammer each other from time to time, sort of like monday night football!

Think about it and act accordingly. I wont tell you or anyone what to do.
Just a little background from a Republican Goldwater Libertarian who believes real freedom has rights and responsibilities!

Knightrider, try keeping in mind that the person you are claiming to try to help is not in Arizona... thus YOUR air is not at issue...

Who suggests flushing the system with it together ?

You can't get air from a compressor as dry as you need to do this stuff...

No one that I trust says to put dye into the system... do a search... that is why I go with the nitrogen and R22..

Your stance on the evap condition and danger does not match the statistics here on the board.

According to my chemistry class regarding accidents, once is often enough. Actually I have never met any service technician who recommends flushing the system one piece at a time. The amount of time required to take it apart and the likelyhood you will get contaminates in it any increase when removing and flushing piece by piece because it has been taken apart in pieces. Flushing does not include the compressor and the expansion valve. Since you should replace the receiver/drier anyway,say goodbye to it. Evaporators going bad with corrosion due to water and debri happen more often in Seattle than here in Phoenix and have led to evaporator replacement, especially if you park under pine trees.

Putting dye and compressed air into the system is only preliminary and I would do the next step too. An Evaporator with a pinhole leak, I've seen them, will be easy to find with dye. If no such problem exists, congrats, move on.

Yeah, our dry desert air mummifies everything. (especially rubber)

I have never seen so many crazy statements from one person.

First you argue for changing out all the orings... which is fine ....

But then you claim that it is too much trouble to take the system apart enough to flush the items individually.

THAT IS WHEN YOU FLUSH THEM... WHEN YOU HAVE THEM APART TO INSTALL THE ORINGS...

Did you mean that a Condensor is easy to find a pinhole leak on ? Finding dye leakage in our well hidden Evaporators is impossible... Whereas detecting an R22 pinhole leak in the Evaporator is easy... because any leak is consolidated in the case as compared to trying to find it spread out in the engine compartment...

And... dye does not leak out of the top of breaks in the system as well as at the bottom..whereas R22 does not care if the hole is high or low...

But aside from that... dye has the potential for gumming up the TxValve.... so is to be avoided if possible.