My rear wheels (still) tilt in like this - \ / need advice... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #16 04-22-2008, 07:23 AM

Mr. Shark, could you kindly provide a bit more explanation of where these bushings go that you feel may be causing the trouble?

Tom W

MBeige · #17 04-22-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldan44

Springs I just took out had same ire size a the OEM's, but had half a turn more wire. Their only marking was 4 red slashes. No MB part # or anything like that.

dd

Isn't it that if a spring has more wire than another of identical height and wire thickness, it'd be a softer spring? So if you removed the one with more "wire" then that means you got stiffer springs in your car, that explains the positive camber. Just a thought.

edit: Nevermind, I just reread and it said you had the + camber prior to the new springs. Maybe something's wrong with your control arms?

dieseldan44 · #18 04-22-2008, 08:04 AM

Shark,

All of the bushings I can think of -

Diff Mount - replaced, I am sure of the part #,bought it from dealer
Subframe bushings - replaced, bought from this site, Ill recheck boxes
CA bushings - have not replaced, but look good. I don't think those would affect the camber.

dd

tgingrich · #19 04-22-2008, 02:01 PM

Some idiot actually had different springs, one blue, one red in there with 3 dot pads. I pulled a matching set of red springs with their 2 dot pads from the junkyard. Now it sits level and the camber looks normal - it may need to settle a little, but i just drove it around the block.
Visually, I could tell no difference in the spring coil diameter or height red vs blue, but the red springs must be stiffer.

They had a block wedged in the softer spring to try to level them out side to side too.

dabenz · #20 04-22-2008, 04:29 PM

dieseldan44, perhaps it's time to back up and ask really dumb questions (I'm the one that's not that smart, by the way):
1) how was the camber before you started replacing parts?
2) how was the tire wear before you started replacing parts?
3) rear "sagging" before you started replacing parts? Measure rear and front height before replacing parts?
4) did you do any front-end work in the meantime?

mobetta · #21 04-22-2008, 08:09 PM

I'd take a good gander at the rear trailing arm bushings- I believe you said the were not replaced??
if the inner were wore out, it may cause your issue. or if someone put eccentrics in there incorrectly.

dieseldan44 · #22 04-22-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabenz

dieseldan44, perhaps it's time to back up and ask really dumb questions (I'm the one that's not that smart, by the way):
1) how was the camber before you started replacing parts?
2) how was the tire wear before you started replacing parts?
3) rear "sagging" before you started replacing parts? Measure rear and front height before replacing parts?
4) did you do any front-end work in the meantime?

dabenz - to answer your great questions...

1.) I *think* it was off from the time I acquired the car. I didn't notice it at first. The only parts I replaced before I noticed - rear axles with CVJ remans and the sway bar links.
2.) Rear tires are not worn to the eye. I have driven the car about 1500 miles since the axle replacement.
3.) I didn't measure before I started replacing stuff - I started replacing rear suspension stuff after noticing the positive camber in the rear last April, after the rear axle job. The rear end was never sagging.
4.) Replaced tie rods, and had indy replace FR ball joint. Indy then aligned. Front tires at the time had too much negative camber and inside wear. Front wheels are now perfect. Indy said the front end is tight and fine (except steering box, but thats another story for another time :-) ).

I really like what these questions possibly point toward. If the rear wheels don't have big time wear on the outside, then it would lead me to believe:

1.)I created this camber situation during my rear axle job somehow
2.) OR the problem was created recently before I acquired the car since the tires are not badly worn.

I did the rear axle job by the FSM and it went without a hitch. How the heck could something have gone wrong there?

Thank you for the continued thought,
dd

dieseldan44 · #23 04-22-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobetta

I'd take a good gander at the rear trailing arm bushings- I believe you said the were not replaced??
if the inner were wore out, it may cause your issue. or if someone put eccentrics in there incorrectly.

They look equally old. They don't look worn out, but they were not done recently. How could I tell an eccentric from a normal one?

winmutt · #24 04-22-2008, 10:08 PM

Eccentric will have a bolt off center. Who installed the springs? Are the seated properly?

dieseldan44 · #25 04-22-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

Who installed the springs? Are the seated properly?

Me

I think they are seated properly (how can I tell for sure?). Would seated properly mean putting the end coil snug against the indentation for it in the CA's spring cup? The spring pad on the frame floor has all nubs showing, everything looks OK.

As an aside, I confirmed tonight the springs I took out are the original correct springs. Red slash springs with the mercedes star and the correct part # for them according to the FSM. My car had the correct stock (26 year old) spring setup and was exhibiting the positive camber.

dd

winmutt · #26 04-23-2008, 07:34 AM

The only adjustment for camber in the rear is spring/spring pads. I suppose its possible that your center carrier could be warped, fixing that.............

dieseldan44 · #27 04-23-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

The only adjustment for camber in the rear is spring/spring pads. I suppose its possible that your center carrier could be warped, fixing that.............

excuse my ignorance, but whats the center carrier? is that what the diff mount attaches to?

dabenz · #28 04-23-2008, 03:36 PM

dieseldan44, I'd quit worrying about the "flexible" axles. Your trailing arms are cocked - that's the issue.

Springs, like us, get tired with age. May have the correct unsprung length but can't carry the weight, meaning they squish too far and pull the tops of the tires inward. Which isn't your issue, providing you have the right spring/pad correctly installed. Shocks don't carry weight - they keep the springs from bouncing.

Put a small block of wood on top of a floor or bottle jack, then gently push up on the fronts of the trailing arms and watch for excessive "give" in the bushings. Isn't much room to sqeeze yourself into. If I'm pulling springs then I'm changing those bushings. Be a good idea anyways at this point.

Trailing arms mount to the wishbone/center carrier. Wishbone mounts to car unibody in front. Correct parts/installation? Miss a shim? Wishbone mounts to differential in rear. Differential mounts to car unibody. Correct differential mount/installation? Shims?

Rear sway bar isn't supposed to carry weight - it just keeps things from getting too mushy back there.

Was the car in an accident? This may affect the wishbone/unibody alignment if the unibody is bent. The wishbone or trailing arms may have been bent by an accident or jack/jackstand. The unibody may be bent at front wishbone mounts or at differential mount from corrosion or many years of road pounding.

Bottom line: if the parts/installation are correct then you're going to need to shim something or live with it. Your fuel system will thank you for keeping the fuel tank full, by the way, and that's a few hundred pounds the rear end was designed for. One step at time and measure that camber/toe in before and after each step - you can do this at home. Remember to roll the car after putting it back on the ground.

dieseldan44 · #29 04-23-2008, 05:09 PM

dabenz,

thank you for the advice. ok, no more worrying about axles - makes sense.

I will try pushing up on the front of the CA's as you described and report back. Ill also do another inspection and post some pics. Pictures could say 1000's of words here.

Where are there shims in the system? I know if the spring pad shims - where else?

Car has not been in accident to my knowledge. Carfax is clean. No signs of any major repairs anywhwre. No rust - Texas car (hence the name, rust free is quite the commodity here).

Thank you, pictures are on their way.

dd

dieseldan44 · #30 04-23-2008, 11:50 PM

Pic #1 - view from up close, with the level. Other wheel is the same.
Pic #2 - from rear, tough to see
Pic #3 - CA bushing
Pic #4 - another CA bushing
Pic #5 - general diff area (that flash rust was from *one drive* in salt on the first day of winter when I got caught - amazing)

From my inspection I didn't see anything remarkable. No damage or worn spots or signs of funny business etc. I was hoping I did something like put the diff mount in backwards - but no.

dd