I am trying to time my engine after my recent trip home (2200 miles) - car is pinging/knocking after installation of new, Monark injectors.

I am using the drip tube and I can't quite figure out the procedure when pumping the primer pump. With my car at 24 degrees BTDC, cam lobes up on cylinder 1 - I pump the pump and fuel flows pretty freely - stop pumping - and then fuel flow eventually slows down to one drop per second, but then stops all together. Should I be getting only drops WHILE pumping (not a steady stream), with car at 24 BTDC? Do I continuously pump the primer?

Does the following procedure also apply to OM617 engines?

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming

Ryan

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RG Newell

1984 300D
1972 250
1986 560SL
1991 300CE

You want drips while pumping the primer. If you have continuous flow, you need to advance the timing until the flow changes to a drip. The flow will change from "all" to "nothing" very quickly as the IP is rotated. You want the spot right between "all" and "nothing."

Which way do I rotate the pump (away from OR toward engine) to advance timing?

ryan

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RG Newell

1984 300D
1972 250
1986 560SL
1991 300CE

Toward.

In the FSM, it says to loosen the vent bolt (banjo) on the fuel filter, but the procedure described in the sticky does not mention that. Do I loosen the bolt, and if so, once I have primed the pump, do I leave it loose - or do I tighten i back up?

ryan

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RG Newell

1984 300D
1972 250
1986 560SL
1991 300CE

I can't see any need to loosen that bolt in the first place.

I liked the idea of having someone else pump the primer for you. That way you can concentrate on the actual timing part of the job.

Timing the IP correctly should not caues black smoke at idle. I have tried to follow your story but I do not remember if you had that smoke at the start of your trip or not or before changint to the Monark spray nozzles. Also were you getting that black smoke during accleration.
It might be useful to post a summary of what symptoms your car had from the point before you changed installed the Monark nozzles on up till now and also what you have checked and the results.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Dose your Fuel Injection Pump Have a Pneumatic Governor or a Mechanical Govenor?

If you have a Pneumatic Governor your Fuel Injection Pump will have a linkage going to a butterfly valve in your Air Intake Manifold and I believe tubing or hose going fromt he Governor to the Air Intake Manifold.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I have been trying to fallow all the problems and have gotten the impression that you are rushing yourself through these jobs. I know that when I rush myself I my thinking becomes reactionary instead of thoughtfull and and inhibits my ability to pay attention to details an sometime causes me to make the wrong decision.

When I drip timed my first Mercedes IP when I worked in a Fuel Injection Shop (my first mechanic job) my Boss checked it and it was not set exactly to spec. My Boss did not expect me to get it right the first time as I was still learning. I did not get it exactly right until the 3rd try. After that I had no problems doing the drip method which by the way at the time was used on most all of the inline type IPs except for CAT IPs which use a timing pin.
My point is that somethings we need to take our time doing things.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I don't think it's that I'm rushing - but thanks for the heads up. I have every intention of going back over the drip timing and checking it again. I just got sidetracked, and concerned about, the timing chain.

I really do take my time (I'm a college professor and I have lot's of time in the summer) - actually I obsess over these things really wanting to get things 'right', or as right as I can.

So for the last 2 days I've been studying chain stretch and timing related issues and trying to figure out the 2mm lift method - which if you read my other post, I think I have finally figured out. My chain is currently - with the 2mm method - showing only 1.5 degrees stretch, so I am going to put things back together and revisit the injection pump timing.

Thanks for the help!

ryan

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RG Newell

1984 300D
1972 250
1986 560SL
1991 300CE

I'm sitting here thinking about this mysterious chain enlongation then shrinkage and have an idea. This may be way out there but here's my 'what if'.

What if the chain and sprockets had an uneven wear along the length of the chain and around the cam, crank sprockets???
Since the cam does not run at the same speed as the crank the chances of having both sprocket's teeth mated to the exact same links of the chain the next time it was checked would be vary rare.

It could be the first (and last) time you checked the stretch it was all mated up tight and then, in the loose position the second time.

Just a wild guess.

Advancing the timing causing the pinging to go away does sound backwards to me. Normally, pinging is due to injection timing being too far advanced.

Please do keep posting your findings.
Good luck!

I think my 'erratic' timing chain readings are a "measurement" problem. I have double, and triple checked the timing using the 2mm lift method and got the same 15 degrees consistently (although even that approach is tricky trying to get the dial gauge needle to stop right at 2mm!).

I don't understand the timing advance - no more pinging result either. That is, if everyone is sure that moving the pump CLOSER to the engine does in fact advance the timing?? This is the direct quote from the FSM:

"Swivel direction of injection pump

Toward engine = earlier begin of delivery
Away from engine = later begin of delivery"

I am going to move the pump back just a bit to see what it does for the smoke. I took my car by a local mechanic and when I asked him about the smoke, he looked at it and said "it's a diesel". He said that that amount of smoke wouldn't bother him at all.

Maybe the car is 'supposed' to smoke a little bit...HA! It does run good...

ryan

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RG Newell

1984 300D
1972 250
1986 560SL
1991 300CE

Professor,

Earlier = advance
Later = retard

For example, injection at 20 degrees BTDC is more advanced (and less retarded) than injection at 10 degrees BTDC. But both are advanced relative to TDC.

In reality, setting the timing does not require that you actually know whether you are advancing or retarding the injection timing; you just need to move the pump to the position that yields the specified drip rate.

Now, after all the focus on the pump, are you certain the you had the crankshaft positioned properly?

I believe the RIV tool will get it "perfect" every time.

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http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42

I don't think the RIV tool will work for my application - NA '78 300D??? Correct?

ryan

__________________
RG Newell

1984 300D
1972 250
1986 560SL
1991 300CE