Cordless Block heater - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bustedbenz · #1 12-23-2008, 09:46 PM

Have her carry a metal pail of charcoal to work with her. A few hours before she goes out to start the car to go home, she can go out, light the charcoal on fire, place the pail under the oil pan, and go back inside

On a serious note, I don't know of many parking decks or garages that would tolerate running a gasoline generator inside there for very long without calling the police or the superintendent or the manager or whoever was in authority to come shut it off due to "fire hazard" or some other such excuse... I know they'd never let me do that at school. A series set of 8 batteries also seems prohibitively expensive... honestly, the best thing I've heard so far was the battery running an inverter. Some various methods of wiring it in have also been mentioned, but just so there's no chance of the other battery draining your car's main source, that seems like the cheapest fastest get-it-working solution.

I also don't know of many standard lead-acid type car batteries that would withstand a lot of that daily discharge-and-recharge cycle before starting to suffer from it. Normally deep-draining these things is hard on them.

Alternately... just parallel-connect the second battery to the car's charging system. Run it like some of the John Deeres do... two 12v batteries supplying twice the current to the starter. That way, she can just crank up with glowplugs and the starter will have roughly twice as much (minus the loss in efficiency getting current from the alternate battery location to the starter) to work with. Good glowplugs and this upgraded battery setup should be enough to get her going in all but the most awful of climates even without the electric heater.

Chad300tdt · #2 12-23-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

Have her carry a metal pail of charcoal to work with her. A few hours before she goes out to start the car to go home, she can go out, light the charcoal on fire, place the pail under the oil pan, and go back inside

On a serious note, I don't know of many parking decks or garages that would tolerate running a gasoline generator inside there for very long without calling the police or the superintendent or the manager or whoever was in authority to come shut it off due to "fire hazard" or some other such excuse... I know they'd never let me do that at school. A series set of 8 batteries also seems prohibitively expensive... honestly, the best thing I've heard so far was the battery running an inverter. Some various methods of wiring it in have also been mentioned, but just so there's no chance of the other battery draining your car's main source, that seems like the cheapest fastest get-it-working solution.

I also don't know of many standard lead-acid type car batteries that would withstand a lot of that daily discharge-and-recharge cycle before starting to suffer from it. Normally deep-draining these things is hard on them.

Alternately... just parallel-connect the second battery to the car's charging system. Run it like some of the John Deeres do... two 12v batteries supplying twice the current to the starter. That way, she can just crank up with glowplugs and the starter will have roughly twice as much (minus the loss in efficiency getting current from the alternate battery location to the starter) to work with. Good glowplugs and this upgraded battery setup should be enough to get her going in all but the most awful of climates even without the electric heater.

ROFL

My wife was just reading this over my shoulder and likes the coal idea.

bustedbenz · #3 12-23-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad300tdt

ROFL

My wife was just reading this over my shoulder and likes the coal idea.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend leaving it unattended under a fine automobile, but farm tractors through the years have been rescued from sub-zero temperatures this way on several occasions during particularly bad (or unexpected) winter blasts in cold places when the cows had to get fed somehow whether it was cold or not. My grandfather remembers melting the plastic handle off a pail accidentally doing this to a JD 2020 that had to get going so they could move round bales with it.

End of side-note distraction

My parallel battery idea was a genuine contribution, anyway.

curtludwig · #4 12-23-2008, 09:55 PM

A regular deep cycle battery and 400w inverter are going to run $100-$150. They're useful for other things too, I still have mine and used it to power my laptop and DSL modem in our ice storm a week ago. That battery is 5 years old now and still has pretty good power, not as good as new but I don't need it for that anymore. If I'd been more careful with it it'd probably have lasted better too.
I forget the exact % you can discharge one and not damage it, somewhere around 50% I think. The battery has 110ah, the heater draws ~34a, lets say another amp for the inverter for 35a. I can then run the heater for about an hour and a half bringing my battery to 50% capacity at which point the car should start in any but the worst conditions. My car would start at -20F after and hour and a half on the heater with no drama.

If I were going to do it again I'd wire the battery into the charging system and put a bigger alternator in the car (bunch of posts on that recently) then wire the inverter directly to the block heater (hardwire the extension cord I mean) and then put a remote car starter between the battery and the inverter so I could trigger the thing from inside the house/apartment/office.

Another side effect is you've got that big heavy battery in the wheel well where the weight can do you some good in snowy conditions. If you went all out with 2 batteries you'd have 3 hours of heat at 50% capacity and balance the weight.

I'm all for Optimas and originally planned to buy one for this project but they were about 2x the price at the time and I couldn't see enough advantage in them and their reduced capacity (the yellow top was ~87ah IIRC) to make it work for this project. Of course the big advantage would be a MUCH lighter battery to hump into the house...

Chad300tdt · #5 12-23-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtludwig

A regular deep cycle battery and 400w inverter are going to run $100-$150. They're useful for other things too, I still have mine and used it to power my laptop and DSL modem in our ice storm a week ago. That battery is 5 years old now and still has pretty good power, not as good as new but I don't need it for that anymore. If I'd been more careful with it it'd probably have lasted better too.
I forget the exact % you can discharge one and not damage it, somewhere around 50% I think. The battery has 110ah, the heater draws ~34a, lets say another amp for the inverter for 35a. I can then run the heater for about an hour and a half bringing my battery to 50% capacity at which point the car should start in any but the worst conditions. My car would start at -20F after and hour and a half on the heater with no drama.

If I were going to do it again I'd wire the battery into the charging system and put a bigger alternator in the car (bunch of posts on that recently) then wire the inverter directly to the block heater (hardwire the extension cord I mean) and then put a remote car starter between the battery and the inverter so I could trigger the thing from inside the house/apartment/office.

Another side effect is you've got that big heavy battery in the wheel well where the weight can do you some good in snowy conditions. If you went all out with 2 batteries you'd have 3 hours of heat at 50% capacity and balance the weight.

I'm all for Optimas and originally planned to buy one for this project but they were about 2x the price at the time and I couldn't see enough advantage in them and their reduced capacity (the yellow top was ~87ah IIRC) to make it work for this project. Of course the big advantage would be a MUCH lighter battery to hump into the house...

This sounds like the way I want to go. Thanks for the advice.

Bio300TDTdriver · #6 12-23-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad300tdt

This sounds like the way I want to go. Thanks for the advice.

Kindly reread post #28 and click on product.

Chad300tdt · #7 12-23-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bio300TDTdriver

Kindly reread post #28 and click on product.

That's cool if she starts the car a few times during the day to keep it warm, but I was wanting a solution to preheat without starting the car.

It looks like it would work nicely in conjunction with a cordless block heater solution though I'm skeptical of ordering from Guangdong China.

Bio300TDTdriver · #8 12-23-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad300tdt

That's cool if she starts the car a few times during the day to keep it warm, but I was wanting a solution to preheat without starting the car.

It looks like it would work nicely in conjunction with a cordless block heater solution though I'm skeptical of ordering from Guangdong China.

That was just an example that such a device exists.

rwthomas1 · #9 12-23-2008, 10:26 PM

If you are going to go with the battery/inverter combo, and given the input from curtludwig it should work just fine. You should however consider this: No deep cycle battery should be discharged below the 50% capacity mark. A deep cycle battery will require more than a car alternator to recharge it when used like this. If you do not adhere to proper discharge and charging regimens the battery will not last. For charging you will need a 3 stage battery charger, like a good marine charger, to put the juice back in as fast as possible and not damage the battery. As far as battery size take a look at group 31 sized batteries. A decent charger should not be ignored. The system will simply not perform to your expectations if the battery isn't up to it. If you want to know how to care for batteries in deep cycle conditions the marine applications are probably the most applicable. RT

Mike D · #10 12-23-2008, 10:13 PM

Yup, the charcoal is an old idea. We called them "Cummins' pre-heaters". We cut the bottom 6" out of a 55 gallon drum, knocked a couple of holes in the side for draft, loaded it up with charcoal, set her on fire, slapped the lid on it and slid her under the engine.

Couldn't use it on Detroits. Too much leaked oil, errh, auxillary rust deterrent.

PanzerSD · #11 12-23-2008, 11:16 PM

The Local RCMP detatchment here operates a 21 prisoner transport truck
that is a newer GMC c7500 with the Isuzu diesel engine.

They need that thing to start anytime, everytime. They have a sure start system, where the trucks normal batteries operate like normal, but when they have to leave the truck sit for LONG periods in VERY VERY cold temps -50 and colder, northern Saskatchewan.

they did a test when one of the tech's came up with this

he had two additional 12V batteries in paralell isolated with a *1000AMP* capable solenoid. if they need extra juice they clip a switch and there's enough amps to crank that engine and fire.

five weeks -58 on a frozen lake and it fired up first time.

WD8CDH · #12 12-24-2008, 09:05 AM

If you are going the battery rout, use 2 - 6 volt golf cart batteries in series. That's the most electrical energy for the least money. also, get an inverter with about 50% extra capacity so it is operating closer to it's maximum efficiency point. I would suggest a relay type battery isolator like what is sold for marine use.

But maybe all you need is synthetic oil, a proper tune up, afterglow glowplug system and possably a second battery.

Chad300tdt · #13 12-24-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD8CDH

If you are going the battery rout, use 2 - 6 volt golf cart batteries in series. That's the most electrical energy for the least money. also, get an inverter with about 50% extra capacity so it is operating closer to it's maximum efficiency point. I would suggest a relay type battery isolator like what is sold for marine use.

But maybe all you need is synthetic oil, a proper tune up, afterglow glowplug system and possably a second battery.

Thanks, I believe everything is in good condition and properly tuned, but I plan to get some new injectors/nozzles soon. I think it needs them.

I'll start looking for the components for the cordless/battery set up today.

pizzachef · #14 12-24-2008, 11:03 AM

I'm sure you will, but please post your results when you have a good idea of how its working out for you. I'm sure there are several people interested

Good luck, Chad.

Jadavis · #15 01-12-2009, 08:07 AM

I was on www.JCWhitney.com today looking for a tent to park my car under at the RV site I am staying at (I am doing the traveling contractor bit right now) and I came across this:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ItemBrowse?storeId=10101&Pr=p_CATENTRY_ID%3A100000529627&productId=100000529627&catalogId=10112&langId=-1&rlid=home_best

It is a remote stater that will work with diesels. One of the features is that you can set it up to start every two hours and run for 12 or 24 minutes, your choice.

The big question would be if the 12 or 24 minute run time would be enough to recharge the battery from the drain of the start cycle.

-Jim