Hey guys,

Just testing the water so I know what to expect before I take my car in to the shop. I don't have the time nowadays to wrench, unfortunately

Like the title says, vibration at 60mph. Nothing at 55mph. The steering wheel is stable below that, but will lightly rock left and right sufficiently at 60 and above. If I let go of the wheel, the car doesn't wander, but the steering wheel moves in a scary manner - enough for an arm massage...

I poked around on the forum, and it seems my options are tire / wheel related, brake (too much play in the rotors? I do have a slightly pulsing when I brake), or driveshaft (?) related. Anything else it could be (or not be, driveshaft sounds a little odd)? I'll probably have them start simple, wheel rotation or balancing (tires aren't too old, though) and work up from there...

I changed the oil relatively recently and had a look at most of the [front] suspension components while the car was on ramps (I can dig up pictures if anybody wants something to look at). One of the struts is leaking, most of the rubber looks original (I'm not sure about its condition - I'm no expert on the matter). The trans mount and flex disks look to be in good shape. The original owner had the transmission rebuilt at one point, so...

Now, to further complicate this problem is the overall condition of most of the suspension components - they're original. Some things have been replaced (like tie rods), but, other than that, everything looks old. I'm dreading the thought of the diagnosis of my problem as "front end rebuild" (and the $$ associated with it). I don't even know what to expect monetarily for that, either? If I do get into that situation, I'd like to *not* be taken to the cleaners, so to speak What's an upper limit to say no to? I have no problem looking up parts prices online, but I'm at a total loss for labor...

I'd love to be able to do some of the work myself...but, I don't think it's happening. Tools, time, and a place to do it are all issues

Bear with me on this one guys! I may just have to swallow my pride and cough up the dough... Thanks in advance.

__________________
1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008
1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009
262,715 and counting

First thing is to have your front wheels balanced. Make sure that you dont have a lump of mud stuck on the rim. Does the vibration go away at higher speeds? If so then it is even more likely a balance problem. You may wish to check to make sure that a bump isnt forming on a tire as well.

__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

yep. get em balanced. might as well do all 4. have them verify the wheels aren't bent when they spin em up. also good idea to shake down the front suspension while its in the shop. tires wearing normal? if not, get an alignment while its there.

__________________
1984 300TD "MAX" 303K+ still going...
fast '70 Chevelle 200k+
home built Shovelhead chopper

I don't think the vibration goes away at higher speed, but I haven't had any time to test it (nor will traffic permit it during my commute). However, I certainly don't think it's something to rule out. Best to start with the simple things

For some reason or another, I think this past winter really did a number on my suspension. The roads were (and some still are) just horrible...

__________________
1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008
1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009
262,715 and counting

I was able to recently identify a non uniform tire on my car by using the "pen" method-- jacking up the car and resting a pen on something. Having the tip of the pen touch a part of the tire, and then spin the tire. See if a bump comes along and moves it. Car was due for new tires anyway-- which it got.

Since you don't have time to wrench these days, the pen test is a good one that can quickly rule out the tires.

The brakes pulsing when you apply pressure says brakes issue to me. I'm assuming you can feel the pulsing through the brake pedal, right?

__________________
1982 240D 4spd, 327,000mi

You may have gone over a rock and damaged your steel belts under the tread.

__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

Yes, although it's very slight. I was thinking warped rotor, but I won't know until I have it looked at. I'm gonna look at my documentation from the previous owner. I could have sworn that the rotors are pretty new.

If they've got the wheels off for balancing, it shouldn't be hard to indicate the rotor while that's happening, right?

EDIT: Front rotors & brake pads were replaced February 2009. Tires were also replaced that month (Michelin pilot exalto a/s)

__________________
1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008
1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009
262,715 and counting

Ok, what about $$ for a front end rebuild?

Sooner or later I'll have to think about it (and probably the rear as well!).

$1200 +/- 250 for parts and $1500 +500/-0 for labor?

That sound like a reasonable ballpark?

__________________
1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008
1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009
262,715 and counting

The vast majority of vibrations are tire/wheel related. You need to determine if the vibration is at wheel speed, driveshaft speed or engine speed.

Driveshaft speed will be about three times as fast as wheel speed. If it's engine speed you can probably feel the vibration when you rev up the engine while the car is in a neutral gear.

If you're on a budget, you can simply swap wheels front to rear and see if the vibration changes. If so, then you know it is tire wheel.

Good luck,

Do that pen test. Unless your brakes are noticeably bad, it probably isn't a rotor. If it passes the pen test, then check balance. The mercedes spec for the "pen test" is something like 1.5 or 2mm.

__________________
99 E300 Turbodiesel 100k

The "pen test" is called checking run out. Although for a poor boy tire examination, checking run out is probably a worthwhile endeavor, it is possible to have considerable run out and still not have a vibration.

More important than runout is Radial Force Variation (RFV.) This is basically stiff spots. All Mercedes dealers plus MANY other shops have a Hunter GSP9000. It is basically a computer wheel balancer with a pressure roller applying 700 pounds of force to the tire as it turns and analyzing the stiffness of the tire as it rolls. In many cases a tire with "stiff spots" can be corrected using a GSP9000 by rotating the tire on the wheel and/or using wheel weights.

If you suspect the problem to be tires and the suspect tires have considerable tread life remaining, it would be worthwhile to seek out a shop with one of these machines. You can find them near you by going to gsp9000.com

Looks like they've updated their site:

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm


I took the car up to 70 today on a smooth road, and I didn't notice much (certainly not as much as I have before). I remember it being worse on certain roads (either rough surface or concrete).

There are several shops in the area that have these machines, including the shop that I'll probably have the work done at.

I'm not really on a tight budget per-se. If there's something wrong, I'll pay to fix it within reason. I just don't really want to get taken advantage of in terms of labor.

__________________
1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008
1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009
262,715 and counting

let em check it out. you can always say no if you think they're trying to rip you off. michelins are good tires, but you may have lost a wheel weight, and the balance can change as they wear.

__________________
1984 300TD "MAX" 303K+ still going...
fast '70 Chevelle 200k+
home built Shovelhead chopper

Sorry about the delayed response!

After starting to notice some outside tire wear, I took the vehicle in to the shop for some work. They did an alignment, balanced the front tires (which should still be serviceable), and did some brake work. One of the rear calipers was sticking and the associated rotor was warped.

The car is driving great now (and I`m a little shocked that the front suspension didn`t need lots of parts like I was fearing). The rear could use some love, but ******** said it should be good for a while.

__________________
1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008
1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009
262,715 and counting

My 400E has the same issue, wheels been checked, 2nd set of tires, road-force balanced, aligned, suspension components are old but not defective, new steering damper, etc etc. I'm having my shop give it an exam in a couple weeks. I was down to thinking it was front bearings, but they don't think so, and there is no noise. Also gets worse as I drive (heat?). I'll point them toward the calipers, but for now, it's a mystery.

__________________
former: 83 300D, 97 C230, 93 400E

current: 08 C300 Luxury , 92 500SL