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  #1  
Old 12-17-2010, 09:45 AM
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W210 E300D vs. E300TD - your input

I was referred over here after my post on MBWorld didn't recieve any attention, and was told there was a greater wealth of diesel knowledge on these boards. (congrats to you... )

I am considering the purchase of a W210 diesel sedan (E300D/E300TD). I currently own a 2-door '99.5 VW Golf TDI for commuting but I am looking for a larger, more comfortable car that will still reasonably hit 30+ mpg's highway.

In my lurking I have learned the earlier W210 '96/'97 cars were non-turbo motors. I am looking for a strictly highway commuter (I do ~35K annually). I am capable of doing all my own service/mechanical work. High horsepower is really irrelevant to me as I just want a comfortable car to bomb down the highway in with the cruise set, as I have a seperate weekend toy to play with. My budget is ~$10K, and I have been able to find some very nice one owner, documented maintenance, non turbo's for less than that amount, and a few TD's for a bit more.

Bottom line: if one does not care about speed, should I save a few bucks and go with a well maintained non-turbo, or is there a compelling reason to go to the later '98+ turbo diesel? Is highway mpg's comparable? are the drivetrains as stout as the later TD? etc.

Thanks!!!!

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Old 12-17-2010, 10:29 AM
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The 1996 E300D was a car with a auto trans that was still of the mechanical control design.

Starting in 1997 all of the MB passenger cars coming to the US had electronic auto boxes.

Of course the 1998 & later e-class cars had electronic controlled everything.
More electronics require the "scanners" designed for MB's to read codes.

I would stick with the 1996 car for simplicity & the 1998 car for the most fun.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:20 PM
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interesting. ...another case where older is better.

I'm well versed in the world of VW's having owned/wrenched/rebuilt over 20 as a hobby, but this will be my first adventure into Mercedes land.

It appears to have similar addictive qualities judging by fleet of cars listed in many forum member signatures. I was bit by the diesel bug when I bought my TDI, and now I don't know that I can go back.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:14 PM
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Choices . . .

Welcome to the forum! As a '96 E300D owner, I suppose I should weigh in.

First, the OM606 engine is probably one of the more reliable mills that Mercedes has ever built. Being a DOHC engine, it has a relatively high rev limit; the NA versions (1996-97) do quite well if allowed to sing but aren't as much fun being lugged around town in a high gear. The turbo versions have considerable more power and AFAIK, reliability was not compromised when the turbo was added.

OTOH, to get the turbo, you have to buy a later model (1998-99) which comes with a great deal more electronics. In addition to the 5-speed electronic transmission, 1997-up have an electronic ignition switch. This thing, like the little girl with the curl, is great as long as it works. Much of the forum traffic on the W210 is electronic-related; the engine itself appears very solid and there are many high-mileage OM606 owners here.

All W210s have an OBD-II port under the steering wheel. A code-reader/resetter is highly recommended for those who like to do their own work and understand what the vehicle is trying to say. Understanding the car's complaint is another matter but the forum is here to help you figure it out.

Most of us have agonized over the complexity (performance)/simplicity argument and lean one way or another. There are at least as many opinions as there are members. The '96 is the least complicated of the W210s and possibly easier to repair but it depends what breaks. I don't see a lot of whining by 1998-99 owners so I don't think they are significantly compromised. You can do some reading on the forum to see what others' experiences have been.

The W210 chassis is known to have rust problems at the front spring perch. You will want to be careful if you buy a car that has spent many years in the rust belt. "Importing" a car from the south or west should be considered.

My own recommendation is to look for a car with good service records, regardless of age or miles. A car with good records not only shows you that the work has been done, it shows you that the owner(s) cared enough to do it and to keep the records. My '96 had three prior owners and 248,000 miles when I bought it in 2007 but it came with a complete set of records going back to the pre-purchase inspection.

My '96 had a few issues to address (the seller disclosed them) but was otherwise in excellent condition and now is even better, having been repaired of those problems. One surprising discovery was that the power steering fluid had never been changed -- and it was black with age and miles. Turns out none of the various factory services list changing that fluid, so no one ever did.

Anyway, good luck, and don't be afraid to ask for help.

Jeremy
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"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2010, 01:34 PM
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Thanks for all the input Jeremy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
The W210 chassis is known to have rust problems at the front spring perch. You will want to be careful if you buy a car that has spent many years in the rust belt. "Importing" a car from the south or west should be considered.
Yes I agree. Living in Michigan, rusty cars are everywhere and I've read of the W210 spring perch problems.

I have previously driven/flown down to Alabama and Florida for cars to bring rust free VW's up to Michigan, especially when dealing with something 10+ years old. Unless I find a very nice creampuff in the rustbelt, I will likely look to the south. They don't cost any more, and working on your own cars, turning wrenches on something that isn't completely corroded/seized/rusted everywhere you look is a thing of beauty.

Even from Michigan I can get down to upper Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Tenn./SC/NC, etc. on a weekend trip. Drive down Saturday, drive home Sunday. Though my wife is no longer fond of helping... I'll have to recruit a friend. The one-way flight is risky... if the seller is not completely upfront, you're stuck a long ways from home.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:58 PM
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If you can find an E of any year in the cared for condition you will accept between '96 and '99, I'm sure you will be happy.

I bought my '99 brand new 11.5 years ago. I have no complaints overall in the car's reliability. It's been a good car for me. Really, any MB diesel with about 100K miles on it should be good for another 250K miles at least.

I drove my '83 300SD to 305K miles, and sold it prematurely in 1999 after I purchased a new MB diesel.

My '99 300 ETD would be considered mint by some - I consider it a reliable, solidly maintained daily-driver with a complete history of major components replaced, with numerous imperfections, and a non-giveaway price.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xflowgolf View Post
The one-way flight is risky... if the seller is not completely upfront, you're stuck a long ways from home.
Not so.

What you do is buy a RT on one of the major travel websites such as Expedia, Kayak, or Priceline. If you do not like the vehicle, take the return trip back. If you do, forget about it, and drive the vehicle home.

I bought my last diesel coach from a guy in Lighthouse Point, FL. I got a cheap RT from my home in Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas via Delta Airlines into West Palm Beach, FL, rented a car and drove to see the coach. It was almost as advertised so I bought it.

Best thing to do is just rent a car with unlimited miles from a company that has a one-way policy option. It's really not that big a deal if the car is right when you get there.

I can tell you this - it's far better than getting burnt as some of us have been by buying sight-unseen.
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  #8  
Old 12-17-2010, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
If you can find an E of any year in the cared for condition you will accept between '96 and '99, I'm sure you will be happy..
Sorry for the rookie question, but does anybody know why they did not offer the facelifted '00+ W210's with a diesel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
...any MB diesel with about 100K miles on it should be good for another 250K miles at least.
That's along the lines of what I'm thinking. My current TDI has ~155K on it and I consider it halfway broken in.

The good news is I started a new job this past year which is going great (something not said for too many in Michigan)... but the downside (or upside...?) is I'm now "a suit" and have to occasionally cart clients around and visit people's homes. Though it's a fantastic commuter (47+ MPG's), my 2-door Golf just isn't cutting it (failed clearcoat, shoddy tan cloth interior, etc.). As much as I like the older model Benz' I think the modern styling of the W210 is a better fit.

As for purchase timing, I likely will not look to buy until spring. I figure I'll put the VW through the salt this winter while all cars are filthy anyways and start the hunt for the right one with no hurry. I prefer to not "need" to buy a car so I can find the right one, and then jump when needed, as opposed to needing to jump.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:52 PM
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I have a 96 E300d, and have owned it for over 3 years now. The car has 217,000 miles on it, and does not burn a drop of oil. Mileage around town here in heavy traffic is about 26-28, and 34-37 on the highway at 65-70 mph. It is a little slow off the line, but once up to highway speed it is a really fantastic ride. Nice thing about the non-turbo is the fact that its a little less complicated to maintain. One issue that you need to be aware of with this model engine is the glow plug problem issue. They can be a pain to change out, and can break off in the head of too much force is used to try an loosen them up. Good luck with whatever model you decide upon.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpernell View Post
I have a 96 E300d, and have owned it for over 3 years now. The car has 217,000 miles on it, and does not burn a drop of oil. Mileage around town here in heavy traffic is about 26-28, and 34-37 on the highway at 65-70 mph. It is a little slow off the line, but once up to highway speed it is a really fantastic ride. Nice thing about the non-turbo is the fact that its a little less complicated to maintain. One issue that you need to be aware of with this model engine is the glow plug problem issue. They can be a pain to change out, and can break off in the head of too much force is used to try an loosen them up. Good luck with whatever model you decide upon.
If you are getting "37 mpg" @ 70 mph on the highway, that is 2 mpg+ more than the EPA rates the car @ 50 mph on a treadmill with no headwind. Your mpg figures are off, for Highway. That car at those speeds isn't capable of returning those numbers, especially since my '99 300 ETD that is EPA-rated above your car's EPA-rating figure, will not, and never has returned the stats you claim. A "fluke" tank fill @ 28 mpg City, and 32 mpg Highway is a rare occurence - even without the use of the A/C. More like 24 mpg City average, and 32 mpg Highway, at best.

BTW, all cars burn oil to operate their engines. It's physically impossible to claim that your car "doesn't use a drop of oil," to operate.

Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 12-17-2010 at 03:55 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-17-2010, 03:34 PM
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Glow plug advisory

Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpernell View Post
I have a 96 E300d, and have owned it for over 3 years now. The car has 217,000 miles on it, and does not burn a drop of oil. Mileage around town here in heavy traffic is about 26-28, and 34-37 on the highway at 65-70 mph. It is a little slow off the line, but once up to highway speed it is a really fantastic ride. Nice thing about the non-turbo is the fact that its a little less complicated to maintain. One issue that you need to be aware of with this model engine is the glow plug problem issue. They can be a pain to change out, and can break off in the head of too much force is used to try an loosen them up. Good luck with whatever model you decide upon.
The Pimp has a good point. OM606 glow plugs have a long reach because of the DOHC head design. Consequently, there is a lot more glow plug body to get carboned-up and stuck in the head. [See attached photo comparing OM603 and OM606NA glow plugs.] I have not had a problem but others have had glow plugs break off in the head.

The received wisdom seems to be (a) pre-soak the threads in Kroil or PB-Blaster or whatever your favorite lubricant is, and (b) gently work the plug in and out, adding more lubricant from time to time, until the plug comes out. Some have found that extraction is easier with a warm (not hot) engine. When you replace glowplugs, put a little of your favorite anti-seize on the threads. Note that this should not be perceived as a "warning" but rather as a "need to know."

Pimpernell's fuel economy is better than mine, for what reason I do not know. My average in mostly city driving (3 years, 25,000 miles) is 26.9 MPG with a high of about 32 MPG. This is mostly on B20 biodiesel and occasionally D2 if we're on the road and can't find anyone selling biodiesel.

BTW, even at 273,000 miles, the engine uses no oil between annual changes [Mobil-1 5W-40 TDT].

Jeremy
Attached Thumbnails
W210 E300D vs. E300TD - your input-glow_7791.jpg  
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"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970

Last edited by Jeremy5848; 12-17-2010 at 03:48 PM. Reason: Add photo
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Pimpernell's fuel economy is better than mine, for what reason I do not know. My average in mostly city driving (3 years, 25,000 miles) is 26.9 MPG with a high of about 32 MPG.
I chalk up wild claims well above EPA rating standards to a fluke fill-up. If the person claiming consistent mpg above the manufacturer's/EPA ratings would start driving every tank 'til dry, they would learn the reality of their miscalculations.

In other words, there's no way to even hit the EPA figure published on the car's manufacturer's window sticker when new.

Claiming a '96 gets 37 mpg @ 70 mph, when the EPA's testing is done on a roller-wheeled treadmill with NO headwind @ 50 mph, reflects -5.2% less mpg, should wake them up to the facts...

I have calculated each and every tank fill since new on my car. 11.5 years now. My '99 has never returned the wild numbers that some claim, much less the EPA Highway rating figure.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
OM606 glow plugs have a long reach because of the DOHC head design. Consequently, there is a lot more glow plug body to get carboned-up and stuck in the head. ...I have not had a problem but others have had glow plugs break off in the head.
Good to know. Pb Blaster gets a good bit of use in my garage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
My average in mostly city driving (3 years, 25,000 miles) is 26.9 MPG with a high of about 32 MPG. This is mostly on B20 biodiesel and occasionally D2 if we're on the road and can't find anyone selling biodiesel.
Not bad. My commute is literally as follows:
1) Start car.
2) Drive 1/4 mile down street to highway onramp.
3) Drive ~73 miles on 70mph interstate (typically @~78mph)
4) Take ~1 miles side roads to parking lot.

repeat from 4->1 for return trip. It's a flat, boring drive. I reckon I will see higher than the average owner's mpg with this usage.

Around home to go to the store and such I usually jump in my wife's Volvo V50 T5 as it is a far more entertaining for quick jaunts.

Currently I track mpg mathematically and fill till visible in the filler neck every time. I track my Golf over at fuelly.com (though I haven't updated in awhile)... not too many E300's on there.



typically if I remember I use an update off my smartphone.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:07 PM
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And you do this [150 miles] every day???

Quote:
Originally Posted by xflowgolf View Post
. . . My commute is literally as follows:
1) Start car.
2) Drive 1/4 mile down street to highway onramp.
3) Drive ~73 miles on 70mph interstate (typically @~78mph)
4) Take ~1 miles side roads to parking lot.
. . .
Wouldn't it be easier to just move 73 miles? That's more one-way miles than my wife and I, before we retired, driving separate vehicles to work, accumulated in a week, round-trip!

BTW, the E300D will cruise effortlessly at 78 MPH.

Jeremy
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"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:14 PM
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Wouldn't it be easier to just move 73 miles?
I could buy a few E300's before I had enough money to get out of my home mortgage. (hello underwater world)

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