Diesel Excretions. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

winmutt · #1 01-18-2011, 10:28 AM

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/a-brave-new-world-of-fossil-fuels-on-demand/article1871149/

Quote:

In September, a privately held and highly secretive U.S. biotech company named Joule Unlimited received a patent for “a proprietary organism” – a genetically adapted E. coli bacterium – that feeds solely on carbon dioxide and excretes liquid hydrocarbons: diesel fuel, jet fuel and gasoline. This breakthrough technology, the company says, will deliver renewable supplies of liquid fossil fuel almost anywhere on Earth, in essentially unlimited quantity and at an energy-cost equivalent of $30 (U.S.) a barrel of crude oil. It will deliver, the company says, “fossil fuels on demand.”

TX76513 · #2 01-18-2011, 10:30 AM

Give me a PM when its an IPO

vstech · #3 01-18-2011, 10:35 AM

N.F.W.!!!!

notice the juxtaposition of 10,000 gallons of oil per acre of production compared to 328 BARRELS of ethanol produced from an acre of corn....

they kinda stretched the limits of credibility with that statement...

they do go on to state it may be possible to go to 25000 gallons of fuel when ramped up to commercial production which would be approximately 800 barrels of fuel... so... they are saying only 31.5 gallons / barrel? I thought it was 33... either way, 32gallons/barrel is only 312.5 barrels of fuel... so corn makes more. and corn gets diluted from 10% in standard fuel, to 85% in E85(which nobody uses really...)

ForcedInduction · #4 01-18-2011, 10:45 AM

Neil Reynolds has an extremely poor reputation as a journalist.

If any scientific mind is used with the article it reads off as another "perpetual motion" invention.

EDBSO · #5 01-18-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

N.F.W.!!!!

notice the juxtaposition of 10,000 gallons of oil per acre of production compared to 328 BARRELS of ethanol produced from an acre of corn....

they kinda stretched the limits of credibility with that statement...

they do go on to state it may be possible to go to 25000 gallons of fuel when ramped up to commercial production which would be approximately 800 barrels of fuel... so... they are saying only 31.5 gallons / barrel? I thought it was 33... either way, 32gallons/barrel is only 312.5 barrels of fuel... so corn makes more. and corn gets diluted from 10% in standard fuel, to 85% in E85(which nobody uses really...)

Cost For A Gallon Of Corn Ethanol

Corn Ethanol Futures Market quote for January 2007 Delivery $2.49

Add cost of transporting, storing and blending corn ethanol $0.28

Added cost of making gasoline that can be blended with corn ethanol $0.09

Add cost of subsidies paid to blender $0.51

Total Direct Costs per Gallon $3.37

Added cost from waste $0.40

Added cost from damage to infrastructure and user's engine $0.06

Total Indirect Costs per Gallon $0.46

Added cost of lost energy $1.27

Added cost of food (American family of four) $1.79

Total Social Costs $3.06

Total Cost of Corn Ethanol @ 85% Blend $6.89 per gallon BUT because of tax payer paid subsidies you can buy it for $3.23 a gallon $101.75 a barrel today.

ForcedInduction · #6 01-18-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDBSO

Added cost from damage to infrastructure and user's engine $0.06

That is false information, ethanol will not harm engines.

bustedbenz · #7 01-18-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

That is false information, ethanol will not harm engines.

It sure isn't good for them.

Ethanol damages 2-stroke engines:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/ns/business-consumer_news/

Problems in standard (older) automobile engines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines#Problems
(also some info in the intro section)

Popular Mechanics article:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/biofuels/e15-gasoline-damage-engine

ForcedInduction · #8 01-18-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

Ethanol damages 2-stroke engines
...
Problems in standard (older) automobile engines

From the articles listed you only show its harmful to older engines, 2-strokes and fuel moisture.
Older engines and 2-strokes are what ethanol was designed for, it creates a lean condition that burns hotter and more completely. Modern engines simply adjust the A/F ratio to compensate, which renders the ethanol useless and harmless, the only effect is reduced MPG and consumption of food that could be used to feed starving countries.

2-strokes need oil thats compatible with ethanol.
Older engines need the carb adjusted.
Moisture can be prevented by not buying crap fuel from shady stations.
Problems solved.

vstech · #9 01-18-2011, 10:49 AM

heh. I've got a buddy of mine that's convinced he can build a "magnetic generator" that will power his house for about 100.00 in parts from the plans...
could not explain to him the folly of it...

ForcedInduction · #10 01-18-2011, 10:59 AM

Besides, I thought algae biodiesel was supposed to be the cure for oil. Its been "around the corner" for a few decades now.

cirrusman · #11 01-18-2011, 11:23 AM

I'll believe it when I get to buy it at my local Chevron station. For now it looks to me like another young company trying to make it to the big leagues Enron-style.

josha37 · #12 01-18-2011, 12:06 PM

oh conspiracy... i heart you. get a life ethanol is good for the farming communities and is made from corn that otherwise would have not been used for food. Are you aware almost 75% of corn is wasted or damaged before it is consumed? I grew up in iowa go back to hollywood and sell your bs on a corner with a piece of cardboard, oh and stop eating our corn.

okyoureabeast · #13 01-18-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josha37

oh conspiracy... i heart you. get a life ethanol is good for the farming communities and is made from corn that otherwise would have not been used for food. Are you aware almost 75% of corn is wasted or damaged before it is consumed? I grew up in iowa go back to hollywood and sell your bs on a corner with a piece of cardboard, oh and stop eating our corn.

Yeah? I grew up next to a corn farm too, but that doesn't make me an expert on biofuels now does it?

These complaints aren't apart of a conspiracy . They have been well known and discussed among academia for awhile. There are a TON of better alternatives than corn for ethanol.

I had the pleasure of hearing a small guest lecture at my school by a Cornell University researcher by the name of David Pimentel. According to his research he found that there was a net loss of energy in the production of ethanol. He also touched upon the political hubbub surrounding corn subsidies as well. Interesting fellow, however his main point was that ethanol in the form of corn is not an appropriate use of the crop.

Here is his paper we had to read before the lecture: http://www.college.wustl.edu/~anthro/articles/pimentel-ethanol.pdf

There are better alternatives out there, but we have a farming subsidy political climate in the US that insists corn to be used when it could be processed for food instead.

And finally, care to cite this 75% loss of food as well? That's an astonishing amount of loss for any industry to have. And no growing up in Idaho doesn't count.

bustedbenz · #14 01-18-2011, 10:56 PM

The corn being wasted instead of used as food is an entirely separate issue anyway. Certainly it ought to be resolved if it's true, simply because it's wasteful. However -- it has no bearing on corn use for ethanol or not. It's simply a question of which way you'd rather waste it.

If we're producing a "surplus" of corn which isn't being used for food, then the answer is NOT converting it to motor fuel. It's reducing that surplus by minimizing overproduction and then using that regained farmland for OTHER food crops which are also needed.

As far as I'm concerned, environment or no environment, money or no money, driving or riding bicycles and eating out of a garden because all the fuel dries up... using a food substance (and food growing resources... farmers, tractors, combines, LAND, seeds) for motor fuel is only a justifiable action when we're already feeding everybody that needs to be fed, one way or another.

EDIT I don't want anybody to get the idea that I think the current ethanol farmers ought to be out of work or ought to lose their funding. I just think that there should be an equal incentive to commit that land and time to food crops instead of fuel crops.
No, I don't have any perfect solutions, nor do I imagine in my wildest dreams that the infrastructure required to feed every hungry person exists EVEN if the food supply exists. However... I think it's just... brazenly wasteful and almost insulting... to so visibly and wholeheartedly "Support" and subsidize and regulate the use of something for an unintended purpose -- when the intended purpose is so visibly NOT being met.

~~~

To say something relevant to the original post... there's got to be a catch somewhere. There always is. But if it DOES happen to be true... that's a remarkable discovery. And one that's desperately needed. If there's one thing we've got a justifiable surplus of, it's CO2 and water. I don't know what it costs to breed these bugs or what the catch will be... they mutate and take over the planet probably, or being within a 5 mile radius is a cause of cancer... who knows -- but it's a lot better direction to be researching in in that if it DOES work, it's a much more practical solution than electrics.