Kit to allow use of 5 speed W124 manual gearboxes in a W123 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JB3 · #1 09-02-2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

Has anyone simply thought about asking ZF?

thats a good idea, but how big is the market for this really?

1-You have a car and engine last produced in the mid 80s, getting on 25-30 years ago.

2-You have a percentage of owners of those cars with that engine who drive stick and prefer it.

3-You have an even smaller percentage of those stick drivers who are willing to do a lot of work and labor to add a 5th gear

So basically, if I were ZF, I would see my maximum target market as a small part of a shrinking demand, which is a small part of a shrinking variant of transmission options and people who use them, which is part of a group of car enthusiasts driving around a shrinking collection of antique cars. A small part of a small piece of a small group that keeps getting smaller in short.

The market for them making something would only be able to grow in a very limited space for a very specific group that is constantly contracting as the years go by, not saying it wouldn't be worth it, just that it would be difficult to demonstrate that it would be very profitable.

winmutt · #2 09-02-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

thats a good idea, but how big is the market for this really?

1-You have a car and engine last produced in the mid 80s, getting on 25-30 years ago.

2-You have a percentage of owners of those cars with that engine who drive stick and prefer it.

3-You have an even smaller percentage of those stick drivers who are willing to do a lot of work and labor to add a 5th gear

So basically, if I were ZF, I would see my maximum target market as a small part of a shrinking demand, which is a small part of a shrinking variant of transmission options and people who use them, which is part of a group of car enthusiasts driving around a shrinking collection of antique cars. A small part of a small piece of a small group that keeps getting smaller in short.

The market for them making something would only be able to grow in a very limited space for a very specific group that is constantly contracting as the years go by, not saying it wouldn't be worth it, just that it would be difficult to demonstrate that it would be very profitable.

Gotta think of europe and the rest of the world, engines from 200,240,280,300. Across a variety of chassis including galendewagens, pontons, SL's etc etc etc. I would pay 2k maybe 3k shipped for a brand new in box with warranty trans. G wagen owners world wide would not hesitate at the opportunity regardless of the price.

Globally I can easily see a batch of a 1000 of these at a reasonable price being sold with in one year, hell within a few months.

JB3 · #3 09-02-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

Gotta think of europe and the rest of the world, engines from 200,240,280,300. Across a variety of chassis including galendewagens, pontons, SL's etc etc etc. I would pay 2k maybe 3k shipped for a brand new in box with warranty trans. G wagen owners world wide would not hesitate at the opportunity regardless of the price.

Globally I can easily see a batch of a 1000 of these at a reasonable price being sold with in one year, hell within a few months.

true, if they also managed to completely update the shifting away from the clunky side levers too, and you had a configurable new trans that would work in a dozen applications perhaps. Would be a completely awesome solution

Im still kind of interested in the toyota trans though, its just so close as far as starter position and bell size. Wasn't there a thread on a guy who put a 617 in a 4 runner or something, and he had some great pics of how perfectly the bell matched up? Im trying to find that thread

EDIT- here it is, look at some of these pics where he comes up with the adapter- (I also stole some of his pics) I mean, look at that, look at how close that trans in to a stock MB configuration

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?8362-89-Toyota-4runner-OM617.952-Benz-Swap

SirNik84 · #4 09-02-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

true, if they also managed to completely update the shifting away from the clunky side levers too, and you had a configurable new trans that would work in a dozen applications perhaps. Would be a completely awesome solution

Im still kind of interested in the toyota trans though, its just so close as far as starter position and bell size. Wasn't there a thread on a guy who put a 617 in a 4 runner or something, and he had some great pics of how perfectly the bell matched up? Im trying to find that thread

EDIT- here it is, look at some of these pics where he comes up with the adapter- (I also stole some of his pics) I mean, look at that, look at how close that trans in to a stock MB configuration

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?8362-89-Toyota-4runner-OM617.952-Benz-Swap

Check It out!
http://www.4x4labs.com/products/diesel-conversions/om617w56/

OK, say I want to spend the $625 on this kit...... will the Toyota transmission fit in the car? I gotta get my friend with her Toyota 2wd truck over to the house so I can make some measurements and model this thing.

lutzTD · #5 09-02-2011, 11:59 AM

in the performance section of diesel discussion there was a thread about this. I had a partner and pricing and offered a bell to fit the getrag 265 to the OM60X. The 3D design was done by me and it was going to be sand cast similar to the above pictured part so it would only need a master to be made. pricing was around 500-600 each if I could sell 25 and ammortize the tool and make it worth my while, engineering was provided by me. I had maybe 2-3 guys actually say they wanted one.

heres a link talking about the pricing of a cast bell

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=2030042&postcount=103

75Sv1 · #6 09-02-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

Gotta think of europe and the rest of the world, engines from 200,240,280,300. Across a variety of chassis including galendewagens, pontons, SL's etc etc etc. I would pay 2k maybe 3k shipped for a brand new in box with warranty trans. G wagen owners world wide would not hesitate at the opportunity regardless of the price.

Globally I can easily see a batch of a 1000 of these at a reasonable price being sold with in one year, hell within a few months.

I seriously doubt that 1000 trannies a year would interest ZF or any other manufacture. I think that if this was to be 'comercially' avialable, it would be from a small enterprise that specializes in MBs. THey would have to find a source of a manual 5 spd trans that are rebuilt and make an adapter or bellhousings. There are firms that do this for Jeeps and other vehicles. The Toyota trans looks to have some prospects. I would also think water jet over plasma cut. Someone on this board took that direction I think with the ZF trans. I think it came down to slave cylinder.
Tom