advice on buying a 300TD wagon - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sarick · #1 09-16-2011, 05:29 AM

Total newbee, with very little mechanic knowledge (i do maintenance on my BMW bike and that's about it).
At present we have a jetta wagon 1.8T as our daily drive and my Bmer, I am selling my 1974 Karmann Ghia convertible as we have our second child on the way and my wife is not to keen on me driving my son to school on the bike, when she use the car.
After looking at all the options available between finance, practicability and taste we both agreed that we like the MB 300TD wagon, my wife will even tell you which color especially...
Anyway, prior to really going for it, I have a few questions that I believe some of you would be able to answer from experience.
With a budget of around $6000 is it right to imagine getting a car that will be a good runner without being a maintenance nightmare?
What are the main points to look at (I did see a list somewhere on this forum but I lost the thread) when checking a 300TD.
We would consider going Biodiesel at some point, any advices or good place to go to read info about it?
Any specific website or even location in California is better to look for?
Any other info that we should consider?
Lots of questions, I hope that we will be able to get some answer and hopefully becoming the proud owner of a grea car.

Thank you in advance.

t walgamuth · #2 09-16-2011, 06:22 AM

Purhchasing a 123 wagon for 6000 I would not expect to get a really great car. At that price it will have issues. If you find a pretty good driver at that price I would give you an estimate of from 2 to 300 a month for expenses for at least a couple of years until you get it back to really good condition. After that it might ease off some.

Even buying what appears to be a great wagon like the 80 five speed advertised here you should expect to be fixing things on a regular basis at least for a while.

Put in excellent condition a 123 diesel will be a solid reliable car for as long as you take care of it though....especially the non turbos and the sticks.

Angel · #3 09-16-2011, 07:56 AM

300TD's were mostly the W123 body style, sold in the US from 1977(?) until 1985.
1981-85's will have the turbo 5, before that is the Non-turbo version. I'd shoot for a later model for a number of reasons.
-less fussy automatic climate control system - its still fussy, but not as much
-more power without a huge drop in economy (turbo diesels are nice like that)
-If you can buy biodiesel locally great - if not, it means setting up tanks, filters, a tiny bit of dangerous chemical handling- its not for people in the suburbs. I'd consider it but with 3 kids and only a garage to store chemicals, unprocessed oil etc and sub 50* winters - Its not worth the hassle. Lots of internet reading here.
if you do decided to go SVO/WVO or B100 - make sure you filter it well, or keep spare fuel filters on hand.

-rust gets all of these cars. they are really hard to find without rust. $6k will get you a showroom rust-free W123 sedan, but not a wagon.
Thats being said, I drove a 'rusty" 240D for more than 3 years (268k to 312k miles) - worked out well, and the guys who bought it from me drove it 300 miles home.

I'd seriously consider the W124 300TE - 1986-1993 - lots of them sold, parts/parts cars are cheap. You can find diesels but they cost more than $6k and there is no economy benefit with 1 more cylinder (and 50(?) more hp). The 3.0l gasser 6 is bulletproof once you replace the valve guides and good for mid-20's mpg (very few people can break 30mpg in the diesels). Newer ACC, electronics, and ABS are always present. 1986-on motors feature hydraulic lifters (I know that you arent adverse to adjusting valves...) and a serpentine belt. Only drawback is that MB requests 93 octane for these motors-there is some debate if that is really necessary though.

My opinions only - $6k gives you some room to look around and depending on how long you plan to keep it - gives you some good options.

-John

sarick · #4 09-16-2011, 10:43 PM

John and Walgamuth, thank you so much for the good advices.
for the first time in my life i am very confused about buying a car!
We need something big enough for a five years old, a new born and all the gysmo that comes with it and a chesapeak bay retriver. obvious choice is another wagon. on the new market there is nothing big enough that will give us a good mileage, on the second hand market we could find a good passat but it would still have way over 100K plus would still be around 14K. it seems that a 300TD could be great as we have about $6k cash but i fear the constant maintenance issue. I was not able to keep up with my Karmann ghia as i just manage the Bmer. Confusion confusion, surely the light will shine in the right direction soon...

JimmyL · #5 09-16-2011, 10:51 PM

Honda Element is versatile as things come. Honda of course means it isn't going to kill you on maintenance.
Any W123, wagon or not, is hit or miss with issues. Some years I would have very little, some years it would be weekly. Never many that took it out of commission, just annoyances.
I tend to disagree (respectfully) with the fact that a wagon at/near $6000 will not be very good. These days, for that $$$$, it ought to be really squared away.
If in the summer it gets really hot at your location, you will never be happy with a W123's air conditioning. And that is in the front seat. Forget about your passengers in the back!!
If yall are looking at W124 300TD's, it changes the above a bit. They do cost more for a nicer one, and are harder to find as they are a one-year-only. {1987)

Maybe even a little Audi wagon......

ashedd · #6 09-16-2011, 11:54 PM

mid 20's in a m103 wagon... down hill maybe.

POS · #7 09-17-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarick

With a budget of around $6000 is it right to imagine getting a car that will be a good runner without being a maintenance nightmare?

You really need to re-evaluate. Having bought, sold, owned, driven, and maintainted Mercedes for the past eight years or so, what I've learned is that all the old MBs require work. They all require $1000-$2000 in stuff the day you buy them, then they all require another $1000-$2000 a year to keep moving. Having two young boys, I can say that you should be either (a) looking at a 1993-1995 w124 wagon (diesel totally unnecessary), or (b) you should be looking at a Honda or Toyota product from the 2000's. Kids aren't cheap, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford kids and MB toys, but if you aren't at that stage yet, then skip the MB and focus on the reliablity of something for the kids. You never want to be in a broken-down anything with a wife and kids with you; it's no fun. And, btw, I practice what I preach - the wife gets the Denali because it's the newest, best vehicle of all the ones I own; I don't want her stranded somewhere with the kids - ever.

sixto · #8 09-18-2011, 02:29 PM

Have you seen this one - http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=305221 ?

Sixto
87 300D

Hogweed · #9 09-18-2011, 03:25 PM

i agree w/ jimmy, and would include toyota sienna as a decent van alternative. i would also consider the early volvo v70 wagons (or 850 wagons for that matter). for $3-4 k you can get a super-clean, low mileage one....i just bought a 200k mile beater for $900 but it isn't for the family, either. easy a heck to work on and parts cars everywhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL

Honda Element is versatile as things come. Honda of course means it isn't going to kill you on maintenance.
Any W123, wagon or not, is hit or miss with issues. Some years I would have very little, some years it would be weekly. Never many that took it out of commission, just annoyances.
I tend to disagree (respectfully) with the fact that a wagon at/near $6000 will not be very good. These days, for that $$$$, it ought to be really squared away.
If in the summer it gets really hot at your location, you will never be happy with a W123's air conditioning. And that is in the front seat. Forget about your passengers in the back!!
If yall are looking at W124 300TD's, it changes the above a bit. They do cost more for a nicer one, and are harder to find as they are a one-year-only. {1987)

Maybe even a little Audi wagon......

MTUpower · #10 09-19-2011, 05:05 PM

If you already have a good german car mechanic then $6000 ought to buy you a great wagon. It depends on you location: the west coast people price cars very very high, and the east coast tends to be much lower. I bought both of my wagons from one owners with 125K and 145K miles for less than $3K each. No major issues to deal with and they have been quite reliable, but remember I am a mechanic myself and have a very good indie to do the things I don't want to do. My wife does not know the tires from the brakes. I would have to chime in that you ought to be able to find a great '87-'95 MB gasser wagon that will do everything you want it to do and it would be a better choice. I'm sure you can find on in your price range- scour CL on the east coast. In the w123 (77-85 models) you would be best off to have had a beater first so you could know the issues and be better informed about what to look for.

sarick · #11 09-20-2011, 01:02 AM

Woah!

well if I was confused Before, now I am overwelmed.
I totally agree with the wisdom of buying something like a Civic or any of these Japanese long lasting, good fuel economy cars, even the minivan... if so many family buy them it is for a good reason. However my wife and I are a bit crazy in the way that we do not like to totally give in to conformism. We both love the look of the 300 TD and we are hoping that we could cope with some of the headache that would come with it. Now the $6000 question is "how much headache will we get?". If it is worth $2000 a year every year, then maybe most of you are right and we should let go of the dream, however if it is more spread out and manageable we would like to jump in.

frankengrant · #12 09-20-2011, 02:54 AM

I agree, I bought a great w123 for 3k, and have probably invested around 2-3k into in total. I plan to put about 1000 a year into it, and that is a low estimate. I have done a lot to the car though, from new shocks all around to a new starter, water pump, rubber, tires, radio, fluid changes, brakes.... the list goes on and on, and your wallet will suffer.

My w123 is the bane of my existence, but I love it...

How did you like the Ghia? My friend just bought a 74 if I am not mistaken. Probably a bad buy for her, she has never even changed her own oil and is not the most mechanically inclined person I know.

WNC123 · #13 09-20-2011, 02:05 PM

here is some advice from someone in nearly the same boat as you. we have an '03 jetta wagon tdi, second baby on the way (probably in the next couple weeks), i am a total MB newbie (although i have learned A LOT from this site, service manuals, and getting my hands dirty), and i just sold a '74 VW Westfalia in hopes of getting a little more safer, newer car (with heat) for the family. i like the looks and styling of the 123 wagons too.
before i even had the bus sold, i spent countless hours on this site reading and trying to determine if these were cars i wanted to get involved with. i kept hearing about the expense, both after purchase and yearly upkeep. i also kept hearing about how "easy" many things were to repair.
i looked at about 10 cars in person, and drove a couple to make sure this is what i really wanted to do. drive some! just because you like they way they look doesn't mean you are going to like they way they drive/handle in person.
i spent a lot of time looking on eBay to see what vehicles were actually selling for, and not just what they went up to without hitting the reserve.
i spent way too much time on craigslist looking for a deal, and also looking to see what cars were being listed for (i looked within about a 600 mile radius of my house).
i spent a lot of time looking at different websites to help get a better idea about the cost of parts for these cars. there was a lot of sticker shock, but on the other hand, some parts were actually less expensive than the comparable air cooled VW part. for the most part though, the prices of parts are more than you may be used to with air cooled VWs.
i bought several factory service manuals and read them thoroughly, again, to familiarize myself with the cars and how they work. i also looked at many websites that show repair procedures.
i went to a couple local shops to feel them out, and to see what kind of service i could expect and what labor costs would be for certain things.
the bus sold, my mental budget was set, and i wound up buying a car that was local to me. i made absolutely sure that i had a pre-purchase inspection done before i handed over my cash. that was very helpful, and alerted me to some things i did not notice, even though i looked over the car several times. it also gave me a good idea where to start doing repairs to make the car safe and roadworthy.
i have done most of the work myself so far, and have bought nearly all of my parts online, and i know that has saved me considerable amounts of money. on the other hand, it has eaten up a lot of my time (thank you understanding wife!). i also realize that there are certain things that i need to have a shop do, and that will add to the expense. most of the stuff i've had to fix so far has been very straightforward and not all that complicated. of course, i have been doing VW work and restoration for the past 20(?) years, so i have a lot of tools and specialty stuff that has worked on the MB, as well as some mechanical ability and being able to think through an issue or problem. having worked on VWs for so long, i can see the similarities (and differences), so while i had not ever worked on an MB before the one i bought, it did not seem completely foreign to me when i did start working on it.
if you are mechanically inclined, have the tools to do things, and a place to work on it, you should be ok with the basics, and maybe a little more. if you have to pay someone to do everything, it will add up fast.
as with buying any older car, buy the best you can afford. people saying that it will cost $1000-$2000 right off the bat are right on the money. tires, registration/title/insurance, front end stuff, not to mention all the vacuum fittings, hoses, oils, fluids, and all the little $3 parts that add up really quickly, will eat a chunk of your budget before you even blink. and that's just for the parts, not including labor costs. and just because a previous owner says things have been repaired or replaced, that doesn't mean every repair has been done with top of the line parts, or by a competent mechanic. you may not like the way a certain thing has been repaired, and just because it was fixed recently doesn't mean you wouldn't want to have it fixed better.
i jumped in with knowledge about the pros and cons of daily driving an older car (this is actually my newest car in 20 years), with what i felt was a good knowledge base about the cars (thanks to this site!), and the thought that i would be able to both work on and deal with some of the mechanical issues that are going to arise during my ownership. so far it has worked out for me, but i have almost maxxed out my budget, and i have much more to do before i drive the car on the road. this means certain things i wanted to do will have to wait, and i have to prioritize what is important to get fixed first. i am not going to skimp on safety issues like brakes, but things like a timing chain, a few oil leaks (seal replacements) and diagnosing the central locking system are going to have to wait for another month or two. have i regretted my decision or my purchase? no, but sometimes i do stress out about my budget for the car. could i have bought a more modern car with working a/c, better fuel economy, and cheaper parts, for less? sure, but that's not what i wanted to do.
i think you could find a decent car for under $6000 (i looked on craigslist in the sac/nor cal/sf bay area and saw several possibilities). the better car you can find for the least amount of money (leaving you more to spend on it fixing things) will get you further ahead than buying a cheap car that needs a ton of repairs. whatever you decide to do, get it checked out by a reputable shop (there is an entire section on this site dedicated to shop reviews). while a pretty paint job and decent interior may be nice to look at, having to spend a ton of time in the shop for major mechanical repairs is not fun (or cheap).

greenacres2 · #14 09-20-2011, 04:43 PM

This Forum, StarTek (online parts catalog), subscription to Alldata DIY (or a good service manual), internet parts to help keep costs down--all those help to make an older Mercedes a daily driver if you have the time and patience to do it yourself. These vehicles were engineered to be maintained and reconstructed--so you rarely have to destroy one part of the vehicle to work on another part.

Side benefit--since owning my first MB, i've done my own maintenance on everything else i own and am not shy about dismantling pretty much anything that doesn't work to see if i can bring it back to life. Has saved me a ton of money in repair costs (and sometimes cost me more to be sure!!) on other stuff.

If your budget will be stretched to its limit or you're not able to fund parts money on a moment's notice--store the dream for a few years. Otherwise, you've already got yourself pretty convinced. Good luck!!

sarick · #15 09-20-2011, 05:46 PM

Wnc123 and greenacres 2, thank you so much for your input, WNC our path are interestingly similar, I used to have a 86 wanagon too, made $3000 selling it after three years, hardly any maintenance or problem.
unfortunately I am realizing that I am not the type of guy to spend that much time and money working on a car, I maintained my motorbike because I have no choice, this year I have ridden it about 35K miles, it needs to work night and day, but already 4 hours a months are painful for me. There is no way that i could find the time and motivation to do what most of you are doing. And it seems that paying a mechanic to do the jobs will cost me a fortune, so I believe that we will have to do like green acres says: store the dream for a while, I know someone who is going to be pretty sad, especially right in the middle of the pregnancy... but we do really dislike most of the Japanese easy ride and I would not touch US cars (no offend, I just do not like them, most people would not touch a Renault or Peugeot even less a Citroen, right now I wish I could get a nice little Kangoo diesel...)
Anyway, thanks to everyone to help in this hard decision making, maybe this thread will be helpful for more than our small family.
All the best