Good morning!

What a difference a day makes Thanks for all your support on "motivation".

The update on "As the Stomach Churns, so are the days of my life" is as follows:

AAA came and the car started right up. The AAA guy said he didn't know anything about glow plugs except they were inside. Oh well. I'd rather talk to you guys about it anyway. I drove her around yesterday. It had an oil change last week and I filled that gas tank. I haven't checked the fuses yet, but this afternoon I'll be ready to do that and take further direction.

One your previous posts talked about the glow light indicator. It lights up everytime. The morning start is the scary one. The car seems happier if it is plugged in, and gets about three glow turns in the morning. After that, its usually ok. The reason the fuel leak makes sense to me, is that a few times it has not started durning the day, no apparent reason. The battery seems relatively new and doesn't take much to charge. Hearing from you all, it also seems like changing the glow plugs is a regular maintenance thing. Gauging the limited insight the owner had on the car, I bet they need to changed. It idles pretty rough. Could the fuel leak contribute to this as well? As previously stated, I have yet to check the fuses, maybe this is contributing? I'll look at them and get back to you.

Jim - I haven't re-bled the fuel lines yet. Should I do that now?

Midas,

Once the car starts the engine can keep the fuel lines pretty well purged unless you have a serious leak. Or if you change a filter and let air in. Under normal circumstances there is no need to purge the air. Many guys here have luck changing the filters or doing repairs to hoses and the like with the engine warm from running. In those circumstances the battery running the starter to purge the air has a little less of a challenge. With the oil hot and the engine warm the engine will spin faster and purge quicker, and even start easier.

I was on a business trip to Houston and did not find the time to check the board here yesterday.
I read your post title tonight and got excited as I thought you had discovered the source of the fuel leak. I did not see anything in your post to describe the leak has been identified. Did I miss it? If you have it id'd, did you fix it?

As for glow plugs, they are "routine" maintenance, but not every year or two years. I typically get three or so years, and when one goes I change them all. If you are curious they look like small spark plugs a little, and they screw into the head below the injectors. One for each injector/cylinder. Each is powered on your car by a wire that is fastened to the top of the glow plug with a small nut, like 8mm or maybe 10mm. Getting them out usually extracts a fee of several gouges and scrapes on your hands, or at least it does for me. I do not take the injector lines (those kind of artistically shaped galvanized tubes that go from the injection pump to the injectors) off and put up with the limited access. Others do take these out, and put them back when the glow plugs are in, then purge the system of air. Other than the access issue this is a really simple job that you can almost not screw up.

I am not sure but I believe your car has a little knob (black, kind of pinched button) to the left of the steering wheel. This is the idle adjustment knob, and you twist it to change the idle speed. Does your car have one, and are you familiar with it? When the car is cold you need to turn it in the full "high speed idle" direction to assist the starting process. It also helps the car idle with less rocking and heaving when the car is cold.

Hope this helps. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Hey Jim!

As always, you a wealth of knowledge. Thanks.

Unfortunately, I have not ID'd the fuel leak. I haven't really had a chance to do to much to it, job/child. I just put my little boy down and sat down at my computer.

Do you have any ideas as to what I should do next to ID the little bugger of a leak? I moved it into my attached tuck under garage. Let me tell you, your nose can tell there is a leak.

I am encouraged with your glowplug info. If I leave the injector tubes, do I still have to purge the air? I feel like Bob the Builder, "yes I can!" As I learn, I feel like I should prioritize my projects. Wouldn't you say that this fuel leak is #1?

There is not an unidentified knob on the left side of the steering wheel. Just lights and parking brake release.

Hey, glad you're back! Shelly

Shelly, Are the injector by-pass lines damp with fuel? Those are the kind of braided fabric lines that go injector to injector. These tend to break down structurally and just seep fuel through to the outside of the line. They can seep bad enough to leave a wet mess. At least I think you car has them. If so, I think FastLane or PartsShop has the line by the foot.

Also, it just dawned on me. Are you sure your battery is always in need of a charge? Is it like dead often? As soon as I read "Lights and parking brake" I thought of all the jumps you've talked about. Your headlights are off when the switch is point up/down. If you turn counter clockwise one notch, that'll leave the right parking lights on, two notches gets you the left. Don't turn the switch all the way CCW. Just a thought.

__________________
Mike Tangas
'73 280SEL 4.5 (9/72)- RIP
Only 8,173 units built from 5/71 thru 11/72

'02 CLK320 Cabriolet - wifey's mid-life crisis

2012 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI...at least its a diesel

Non illegitemae carborundum.

Midas,

My 1982 240D has one of the knobs I was talking about and I thought 300D Turbo's had them too. I could be wrong, but someone else pipe up here. On the 240D it is very close to the steering wheel and is kind of awkward to get your fingers on to twist it.

Yes, I think you need to find the fuel leak. I am pretty sure it is in your fuel filter assembly. Try drying the entire thing with paper towels and then start the car and look for wetness. You most likely do not have a gushing artery type of leak, so I doubt it is a mechanical connection that is loose or has a gasket missing. It is most likely a degraded rubber tube, as they leak by kind of oozing fuel through the wall of the tubing, which will wet the surface but not necessarily make a visible dripping. Fuel will accumulate more in the cold, as when the outside temps are hotter, under the hood it gets hot enough to evaporate the Diesel shortly after a weeping leak. But the stink is still there.

So, be very suspicious of shiny metal, or clean surfaces as they are probably being wetted with fuel. The next best places to look are the connections to the pump and in-line filter. Again, wipe it all down with a rag or paper towel and run the car, then look for signs of wetting with a dry paper towel. And, wipe down the area near the hand pump and see if that is oozing. The fact that the "handle" on the pump was overflowed with liquid fuel is an indication the leak is coming from above that surface.

Changing the glow plugs without removing the fuel injector lines will earn you a free pass to skip the air purging steps. It will also get you some war wounds, so you may want to wear gloves. Good Luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Hi guys,

Is it possible that the leak is in the piece right below the plastic pump handle? I hadn't gotten Jim's message until now, but I'm going to go and dry off as much as I can.

Well, I completely understand the access thing. I think I may have a bit of advantage here. I have small hands.

The hoses look good. They are relatively new. I didn't see any braided hoses into the injector region though. There are a few larger hoses with a black fabric/rubber exterior. The clear line had two big bubbles in it. I couldn't run the car too long, its relatively late and I rent out my basement. The wet look on the engine might be fuel. There was a drip out of the lower hose into the injector area. Is this oil? The larger hose, a little higher up seems to be a fuel line. Ok, engine 101. Bear with me. I'm on a mission now. I want to find this bugger. I got everything pretty clean.

Midas,

You cannot confuse engine oil in a Diesel with fuel as the engine oil will always be black as coal right after it goes in. The fuel is always going to be pretty clear, a little color now and then depending on what the brand practice is but still always clear. If the fuel is not clear we have a different issue.

Anywhere you see leaks it is a problem. If you have access to a digital camera and can post some pictures you can get some help identifying the parts. I noted before the cloth covered rubber lines that are about 3/16" in diameter that jump from injector to injector, except on the very rear and front of the engine, where the rear one terminates and the front one goes to the filter assembly, are all candidates for routine replacement due to leaks. I think the temp and cyclic pressure pulsing just ruins them quickly. The termination at the rear most injector is also a candidate for early demise.

The other hoses consist of the lines coming from the tank to the injection pump, through the in-line filter (is yours clear and clean? These are about $2.00 and should be checked for crud every year at least.) and the injection pump to the filter assembly. All but the clear one have given me trouble and needed to be replaced. I have yet to replace the clear one. Don't worry about that bubble, I see them there once in a while also, but I do not think that is in the high pressure portion of the system, and it is not leading fuel back to the injection pump so it is ok.

All but the thick black rubber hose that goes off the back of the filter assembly are things you can buy in bulk. The black rubber "Cuban Cigar" hose is a particular part and can be purchased from FastLane I believe, along with the bulk other hoses (the small injector daisy chain, and the larger - maybe 3/8" diameter - fabric covered hose).

Well, thats it for now, Good Luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Good morning!

Well, I just looked at the car. The clear line that had a few bubbles in it, its half empty. Fuel seems to be seeping from the pump (?) The piece that I hand bled. The connection at the base is wet. I dried it, put paper towels around connection areas of the lines, hand pumped it to the top of the clear line, fuel leaking at the base of the hand pump. You can see it glistening at the base before it drips, everything else appears dry. Do you think thats it?

Thanks,
Shelly

Midas,

Sorry for being out of touch again, but I am in Colorado for a few weeks to ski with my wife and kids. The trip here was a long day and I did not get back to the computer until just now.

Congratulations! I think you found the problem.

The solution is to buy a new pump, as the assembly below the handle is the pump itself. Now, I have never changed one of these things so if it is not obvious you should start a new thread asking for instructions. I know the one FastLane sells is reported to be much easier to use and very simple to install. You might call instead of ordering over the internet and ask for the sales people to include some instructions, or just talk to them and get your questions answered.

If you are leaking enough to empty the clear tube you are draining everything else down to that point as well, which is a lot of fuel and a real lot of pumping. While the new pump may be easier, it will likely never leak like this original equipment piece does.

Be prepared for some serious Diesel fuel spill when you remove the old pump. I think you might want to plug the tank supply line so you don't dump part of the tank of fuel too.

We all admire your desire to get the most out of this old jewel of a car. As someone already noted you will find a number of us willing to take it off your hands, and that would only be the case if we were all sure you have a good machine suffering from a little neglect. Nothing a little TLC won't cure and you will have years of faithful service as a reward. Good Luck, and keep us posted. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

TXBill and Midas,

That has me a little troubled too. If there are no places showing a leak from above the handpump in the test Midas has done, repeating the test with the car running until it gets fully warmed up might show another leak.

It is also possible that air flow under the car and in the engine compartment could blow a stream of leaking fuel all over the area. I hate writing that because it sounds so hokey, but it is a potential.

There is also the possibility that the previous owner fixed some of the cheap stuff, like the hoses leaking above the hand pump, and when that did not work, decided to sell the car rather than keep it and fix the leaking part on the injection pump.

Well, fixing a leak you can see dripping with the car not running will definitely make the volume of the leak much smaller. Any other leaks will be easier to find when this one is gone. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Good morning!

As always, great to hear from you all and many thanks.

I am glad to hear you questioning the fuel in the top of the lid of the hand pump. I've been wondering that myself. You know, the lines above it continue to be dry. In my uneducated mind, I took the dripping fuel that I saw from the pump, and imagined greater pressure squirting it upward. It wouldn't have to be old faithful to get it into the cap. I don't know. However, I am confident that A leak is here. So, we'll get it fixed and go from there.

Also tracking with you on the previous repairs. After spending a little time getting my hands dirty. I can see that the hoses would be a good "fix to sell" repair. I have also wondered what may be lurking beneath. Its great to be learning about all of this.

I got your message about posting a new thread on replacing the pump. Do you think this repair is one that I could do? I received my Haynes repair manual and my initial tool set. The manual does not address replacing the pump. What is this pumps "real name"? Fuel primer pump? The manual does get describe replacing glow plugs. I think I can do that.

I am curious as to what tools you think I should consider necessity in my tool box.

A whole hearted thanks for all of your information and support. I am having a great time with my new hobby and friends.

Take care and more later,
Shelly

Midas,

Your tool kit will evolve over time, and you should let it. To begin with you need a metric socket set, and a combination set that goes from about 7mm to 22mm, with a ratchet, an extension bar, and a set of Allen wrenches that go from small, like 3mm or so up to 14mm. You will need the 14mm unit to change the differential oil, and some of the others to tackle things like the motor mounts and other odds and ends. The Allen wrench set could be your first significant addition. But you need the other set, and the MB tool kit that came with the car. Then you need a typical set of household tools, like a pair of pliers, a hammer, a set of screwdrivers (Phillips head and standard slot head types, in a few sizes).

This may bring about a huge deluge of opinions, but I only use Sears Craftsman stuff as they come in groupings that make sense and if you look for tool sales (Father's day is a good one) you can get good deals. And the lifetime guarantee is really a no questions asked, and, if the Sears is nearby, convenient service. I have returned a dozen shovels, a ratchet, two or three hammers, and so on, and never showed a receipt. Just bring in the parts of the broken tool, and show where one says "Craftsman" and you get another out of stock.

I have never changed the hand priming pump for the injection system, so I cannot vouch for how easy or hard it will be. If you either do a search, or post another thread, someone who has done it will definitely respond. The cases I have heard about on this Forum make it sound like it is much less complex than the glow plug job. But ask, here or the guys in the FastLane/PartsShop by calling the phone number. I am sure they will be frank and let you know if it is complicated or not.

Good Luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Jim,

As always, thank you for your insight.

Have a great weekend.
Shelly

Midas and TXBill,

While relaxing after the first day of skiing it occurred to me that the fuel that spilled all over the injection pump handle might have come from the last guy to change the fuel filter. That thing can be hard to pull out of there if you have not done it before, and it is full of fuel, so if you tip it, it will spill. And a fuel filter is another "just before you sell" type of maintenance item. Just a thought. Jim

__________________
Pete

1986 Euro Black Metallic 190E 2.3 16V