Correct grade 0w40 mobil oil for $37.46 case - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

chronometers · #1 10-03-2012, 12:26 PM

Mobil 1 0w40 for $37.46 after $12/case rebate

:

Mobil 1 0W40

This is cheaper then Walmart before sales tax!

sixto · #2 10-03-2012, 02:53 PM

Oil thread!

It might be an acceptable grade but it's not labeled as Diesel rated. Look for CG, CH, CI, etc. in addition or in place of the S ratings.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx

Sixto
87 300D

JHZR2 · #3 10-06-2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

Oil thread!

It might be an acceptable grade but it's not labeled as Diesel rated. Look for CG, CH, CI, etc. in addition or in place of the S ratings.

0W-40 Synthetic Oil | Mobil 1™ 0W-40

Sixto
87 300D

Just because they dont pay API for a C license anymore doesnt mean much. Most of these euro specs are relevant for diesel, including the ACEA B specs.

Mobil 1™ 0W-40

That said, I agree with you in spirit, and for any diesel that doesnt have some special need or a DPF, Id always run a standard HDEO. No reason to not use one.

MTUpower · #4 10-07-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Just because they dont pay API for a C license anymore doesnt mean much. Most of these euro specs are relevant for diesel, including the ACEA B specs.

Mobil 1™ 0W-40

That said, I agree with you in spirit, and for any diesel that doesnt have some special need or a DPF, Id always run a standard HDEO. No reason to not use one.

Can you verify that the oil giant Mobil chooses to NOT pay a fee for the proper industry standard rating? That smells fishy. Can you also verify that the MB ratings also include the diesels of old or diesels period? Diesel oil has to have soot dispersants which gasoline oil does not. I don't know of any diesel engine manufacturer which recommends an oil that is not diesel rated- but in the last ten years oil approval is a hot topic and I could be mistaken.

chronometers · #5 10-07-2012, 11:18 AM

From the Mobil web site:

"Mobil 1 0W-40 (European Car Formula in North America) synthetic oil is engineered for the latest gasoline and diesel (without Diesel Particulate Filters or DPFs) engine technology delivering excellent all-round performance."

I thought this was MB factory fill oil until the advanced particulate filters were introduced.

MTUpower · #6 10-07-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronometers

From the Mobil web site:

"Mobil 1 0W-40 (European Car Formula in North America) synthetic oil is engineered for the latest gasoline and diesel (without Diesel Particulate Filters or DPFs) engine technology delivering excellent all-round performance."

I thought this was MB factory fill oil until the advanced particulate filters were introduced.

Means little without the outside standard approval. This is the same argument going on over at BW- but the multi-industry independent standards are not being followed- so the questions I asked earlier are not answered with this statement from Mobil.

JHZR2 · #7 10-08-2012, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Can you verify that the oil giant Mobil chooses to NOT pay a fee for the proper industry standard rating? That smells fishy. Can you also verify that the MB ratings also include the diesels of old or diesels period? Diesel oil has to have soot dispersants which gasoline oil does not. I don't know of any diesel engine manufacturer which recommends an oil that is not diesel rated- but in the last ten years oil approval is a hot topic and I could be mistaken.

Well to start, because the API states that a CF rating is obsolete, which is something that you can see from their literature if you dont believe me:

http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/motor_oil_guide_2010_120210.pdf

And from them specifically:

Quote:

CF: OBSOLETE Introduced in 1994. For off-road, indirect-injected and other diesel engines including those using fuel with over 0.5% weight sulfur. Can be used in place of CD oils.

CF-4: OBSOLETE Introduced in 1990. For high-speed, four-stroke, naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. Can be used in place of CD and CE oils.

Now, pull down the API licensing agreement, part C. In there, section 6, youll find:

Quote:

6. Licensee agrees to pay to API an annual minimum royalty fee [two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) for API members; three thousand dollars ($3,000) for non- members] plus $0.0030 per gallon of licensed motor oil after the first million gallons of production. This minimum royalty may be revised annually if deemed necessary by API to cover the costs of administration and enforcement of the program. Licensee agrees to submit the necessary annual volume of sales data and the minimum royalty fee to API within the time frame specified by API. All fees are payable in U.S. dollars.

So explain to me exactly why Mobil would pay a licensing fee for an API spec that is obsolete and has no relevance to anything in use in any application?

If you have an application that is diesel and want to use that oil, it holds other diesel-specific specifications. ACEA B3, B4, which the oil officially holds are passenger car diesel specs. The oil holds a Dexos 2 rating (not stated on the PDS), which is an oil spec for GM diesel engines. All of the MB 229.x specs utilize a diesel engine for diesel-specific tests (OM 646 DE22 LA (CEC SG-L-099)), as well as map also to some VW TDI tests and the VW 502 spec itself. VW uses the 505 spec for diesels, and it too is listed on the M1 oil.

Now, M1 0w-40 does claim to meet CF, but note the crafty wording:

Quote:

According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality:

It claims to meet the old GM-LL-B diesel spec this way too.

So in other words, M1 0w-40 holds diesel specs and is a lube design for diesel engines for which it fits, namely newer diesels that utilize their manufacturers or the ACEA diesel specifications and do not have so much emissions equipment that they need a low SAPS oil to protect it.

But how much of the discussion on here is for the high pressure direct injection common rail modern passenger car diesels that these specs are all written to? Maybe a few on here run CDI engines and this will work, but most on here as far as I can see run old IDI engines that load a lot more soot.

I love M1 0w-40 oil, and I also love synthetic oils in general. Its all I run in my vehicles. But would I use that oil in any w115/116/123/124/126/210? Nope.

Why? Because the current diesel specifications for HD diesel engines align to the modern API Commercial C specifications, and these oils hold lube designs really optimized for diesel engines and their needs and requirements, including the more severe soot loading, TBN loss, etc. So they will do a better job in those areas.

Will M1 passenger car oil work? Ill bet it will just fine.

But when I can utilize a lube with an add pack better optimized for my application, why wouldnt I?

But back to the original question - Mobil IS paying for certs that are of relevance to its intended operation in gas AND diesel engines. M1 0w-40 does hold some modern diesel specs. It is not holding active certification for an obsolete commercial diesel spec, because no diesel operator on the commercial side is going to be running that oil in their engine when there are far better options available for their diesels. Mobil pays for the specs required to maintain warranty coverage of engines and vehicles that they have a customer base with that need. Paying to show an obsolete spec that nobody is going to buy on is just a waste of money.

Also for your other question, all MB 229 specs have to be tested on the engine I cited above and pass for varying characteristics for the following tests:

Cam wear inlet (avg. max. wear 8 cams)
Cam wear outlet (avg. max. wear 8 cams)
Cylinder wear (avg. 4 cylinder)
Bore polishing (13 mm) - max. value of 4 cyl. Piston cleanliness (avg. 4 pistons)
Engine sludge avg.
Ring sticking
Tappet wear inlet (avg. max. wear 8 cams)
Tappet wear outlet (avg. max. wear 8 cams)
Bearing wear main / con rod bearing
Piston ring wear axial @ ring 1 (4)
Piston ring wear axial @ ring 2 (4)
Piston ring wear axial @ ring 3 (4)
Piston ring wear radial @ ring 1 (4)
Piston ring wear radial @ ring 2 (4)
Piston ring wear radial @ ring 3 (4)
Timing chain wear (elongation)
Oil consumption
Soot
Viscosity increase at 100°C

FWIW, since the HDEOs that I advocate all carry MB 228.x specs, those oils too must meet the basic MB requirements as well as diesel specific wear and other tests on the OM646 engine I mentioned above, and then those oils also have to be tested on an OM 501 LA Euro 5 (CEC-SG-L-101) as well.

sixto · #8 10-08-2012, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Paying to show an obsolete spec that nobody is going to buy on is just a waste of money.

That's where a little information is dangerous. If my vintage owner handbook says to use a certain spec, that's what I look for when selecting.

It's the same dilemma with our 20 year old van. The manual says to use Mercon ATF, not Dexron. I look on the shelf and all I see is Dex/Merc which is compatible with both Dexron III and Mercon, and Mercon V which says it's compatible with Mercon but some strongly advise against mixing with Mercon.

So many answers on the internet but nothing definitive or comprehensible by me from the only sources that matter - the folks who are liable if my engine or tranny fails.

[/rant]

Sixto
87 300D

Jeremy5848 · #9 10-03-2012, 03:33 PM

And it's only 6 quarts; most of our diesels take 7 or 8 so (if it was diesel-rated, which it is apparently not) you'd have to buy two cases or a couple of extra quarts.

Jeremy

sixto · #10 10-07-2012, 12:15 AM

I wish I understood those acronyms. I'm just quoting from the book in the glove box

The spec sheet says it's CF rated which should be good enough for MB IDIs. Why not put it on the label if it's on the spec sheet. Can they afford to alienate the ignorant public?

Sixto
87 300D

tjts1 · #11 10-07-2012, 01:16 AM

Shell Rotella 5w40 synthetic is $20/gallon at Orly's or whatever its called these days. I think its slightly cheaper than wally world at this point.

WINGAS · #12 10-08-2012, 07:30 AM

"0" is pretty light for a compression engine. Cheap or not.

JHZR2 · #13 10-08-2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WINGAS

"0" is pretty light for a compression engine. Cheap or not.

That makes zero sense.

M1 0w-40 is a fairly light 40wt oil. But it is 13.5cSt at 100C, which is within the range of a 40 wt engine oil. It is 75 cSt at 40C.

For reference, Shell Rotella T6 is 14.2 cSt at 100C, also within the 40wt range of viscosity, and 87 cSt at 40C.

Nobody wants a 75 or an 87 cSt oil in their engine. Notice the viscosity at operating temperature.

So is 75 cSt too light or you, given that at operating temperature it is 13.5cSt? What do you want in your engine at cold start, asphalt?

MTUpower · #14 10-08-2012, 07:43 AM

Mobil- the giant corp cannot afford $2500? I do not take that seriously.

According to the PDF you provided all diesel oils start with a "C" and all non diesels do not. I don't see any cross reference which lists Mobil's gasoline oils that also have a "C" rating for soot loading. Am I missing something?

More later but thanks for the post.

JHZR2 · #15 10-08-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Mobil- the giant corp cannot afford $2500? I do not take that seriously.

According to the PDF you provided all diesel oils start with a "C" and all non diesels do not. I don't see any cross reference which lists Mobil's gasoline oils that also have a "C" rating for soot loading. Am I missing something?

More later but thanks for the post.

You are assuming that Mobil can actually get a license to use an obsolete rating on their oil bottle. Nothing says that the API is willing to give a license for a lube spec that is self-claimed to be obsolete.

So it is (1) dollars, to be used on a spec that how much of the market cares about? Remember, any HD diesel users are going to buy a real API CJ-4 or current spec commercial oil, and folks with recent diesel engines in passenger cars do not align to the definition of CF, so they wont care about it. The number of people actually looking for API CF is so small that they dont actually register, and (2) youre assuming that the API is willing to provide an API CF certification when they claim themselves that the spec is obsolete and has been superseded. This is exactly the same as how GM is no longer giving Dexron III licenses and only licensing Dexron VI. Any ATF that meets Dex III is self-claimed the way Mobil says that 0w40 meets API CF. There is no active governance over it, and it is why the term Dexron III cannot be used, which is why those ATFs are now called dex/merc or D/M.

Again, M1 0w-40 DOES hold diesel ratings for applications that the oil is relevant for, namely the ACEA B licensing as well as the manufacturers' sheet ratings, all too of which cost money to obtain.

The add packs for API "S" Service applications are indeed different than those for API "C" Commercial applications, in their current forms. I dont know how to tell you that any different. An API CJ-4 in, say, 5w-40 is entirely different from the chemistry of the adds than, say an API SN in 5w-40. And it goes from there.

Some oils, really the diesel oils, do carry, say CJ-4 and SM or SN, but these generally do not carry the manufacturer specifications for passenger vehicles, and most passenger vehicles lately have been dropping in viscosity requirement, which makes more of a misalignment.

Its a complex thing, and if M1 0w-40 met API SN and CJ-4, Im sure they would license it that way. Again the add packs are different and the markets are different, and whether it meets CF or not (which they claim it does) is somewhat moot because it isnt what the consumer is looking for.

And I wouldnt personally want a CF oil when additive tech has moved forward a great deal and you can get a better oil in an API CJ oil.