Hello All.. I am happy to make my first post here and hopefully become a regular member here! I just bought (and am picking up in a few days), my first diesel mercedes, a *lovely* 1981 silver 240d!...

its got approx 180k miles, is a 4-spd, and i cant believe i got it for such a good price - $1500.. it really has been babied.. I have some questions though.. being myself 20 yrs old, this is my first (well, the family had a 76 300d 10 yrs back) diesel mercedes, i have some "first timer" questions!:

-the odometer is apparently broke, approx 25k back ago.. the owner said he did not know how to fix it.. is this a DYI job, or would it be good to take it to my local speedo-repair shop (i live by one).. [the Trip odometer, and speeodometer do work however]...

-The Owner (who has had the car approx 13 yrs), has always used "Chevron Delo 400 15w40" oil in the car, changed every 3-4k.. Would it be generally good to assume that this is the oil i should continue to use in this car, or is there a better oil out there i should investigate using?? Just curious! Also: what oil filter brand seems to work the best in these cars?? ( i hear its super-easy to change them!)

-the manual 4-speed transmission seems to shift fine, but.. maybe its me getting adjusted to the car during its test-drive, i don't know..- but.. i seemed to think that the travel of the shifter itself, from 1st gear - to 2nd gear seemed kinda far.. like the shifter had to be moved a bit "low"/down, farther than what i am normally used to in other cars..no difficulty shifting, mind you.. just that gears 1 - 2 are farther apart than what a 3rd-4th gear shift would be like, i guess.. Also.. I remember hearing an slightly audiable "rolling"/"rotating" noise that increases with RPM, seemingly emanating from the Tranny area, whenever it is in a drive gear or under load.. could this car be in need of a tranny fluid flush, or some other kind of minor adjustment? or would you think its time for a (ack!) REBUILD?? despite the slight noise, i noted no difficulty shifting or driving... just curious what it might be!..I would hope this would be something of relatively easy repair.. =)

-the car really is in otherwise sweet shape- garaged its entire life, glossy silver paint (i couldnt believe it- no oxidization!), the "bundt cake alloy wheels" , sunroof, etc.. i will definetly post a picture when i pick up the car this Friday

If anybody has any opinions/ideas as to how i should handle the above things.. please post a response.. i'd love to hear what all you think!.... Thank you all so much!,

Miles
(newly acquired 81 240d) =)

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milesb@mac.com

Congrats on the new car, Miles. I have an 82 240D 4 speed. You'll probably get a lot of different opinions--here are mine.

The speedo isn't an easy DIY job. It is do-able, but best bet would be to take it to shop. There's probably a little cog wheel on the odo that's slipping--fairly common problem.

The Chevron oil is okay. I've switched all my MBs to Mobil synthetic (Delvac1 or Mobil1). I think it's a better oil (and so does Mercedes--they recommend it now for older models and it comes standard in all new models). In my 240D I use Delvac1 5-40, 5000 mile changes.

Best to get MB oil filters, as they are better quality than Fram, Purolator, etc. MB sells Mann and Hengst brand (and maybe one other one. You can get them on-line at a decent price (Fast Lane on this discussion board, or Rusty (rusty.mbz.org). There's probably someone closer to you--these are both SE US.

I use Mobil1 ATF in the manny tranny (again MB recommends it). I also use Mobil1 gear oil in the differential, but standard gear oil is probably just as good. You might want to change those both if it hasn't been done in a while.

I don't know about the shifting. I haven't experienced a similar situation--my shifts seem normal. Maybe someone else will know.

Best of luck,

Miles,

I will try to help answer some of your questions:

1. I've never taken one of these odometers apart but I would venture to say that you can either get a used one and note the mileage so you can keep track of it or you can take it to that place you mentioned to have it fixed. Personally I'd rather have it fixed, that way you won't have to be searching for a speedometer assembly.

2. Your oil question has been thoroughly discussed on this forum. I would suggest using what the car has been using all this time and keep using the Chevron Delo 400. That is what I've been using in my 240D and it's excellent diesel specific oil. The only thing that may be different from everybody else in the forum is that I change my oil every 2K....but that's just me but I would't wait until 4K to change it as the previous owners on your 240D. And when you do change it, "change it hot and change it often" as per Larry Bible's famous quote. For oil filters, you can order them in bulk from this website at Fastlane and you can't go wrong. They will probably send you Mann filters or Hengst. I wouldn't put anything else in these cars.

3. I've never driven a manual transmission 240D so I really couldn't answer your question with regard to the noise but I hear these transmission are virtually indestructible as are the engines. I would replace the transmission fluid and see what that does...remember do the cheap stuff first.

Herb
'82 240D
'87 300SDL

Check the bushings on the shift linkages under the car some of them might be worn. Get a haynes manual too. Welcome to the Diesel Forum.

__________________
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel - 4x4, auto, 3.54 gears, long bed
-------------------------------------
'92 300D 2.5 Turbodiesel - sold
'83 300D Turbodiesel - 4 speed manual/2.88 diff - sold
'87 300D Turbodiesel - sold
'82 300D Turbodiesel - sold

Yea.. I think i am going to get the fluid changed (in the tranny), just in case... I have never touched a manual tranny before- are they easy to change fluid in? (i'm imagining yes.. but..??) .. I'm just hoping the noise I heard isn't like.. Bearings of some sort going out!
While on the subject of Tranny fluid, Is it true that the Manual Tranny in a 81
240d runs on ATF fluid? I searched the board posts and came with mixed answers?? If so, i may want to try sythetic ATF??


BTW- I've seen "Euro Headlight conversion kits" available from a few sites (they are a few hundred bucks, i know!).. How hard are these European lights to install? ie. would I need to do any modifications to the car in order to get them to operate? (I have heard they sometimes have a "vaccuum operated reflector",- or something that is vaccuum-operated at least..)

Thanks all!,

Miles

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milesb@mac.com

Miles,

Congratulations on the "new" car.

I have driven beaucoup miles in the 123 cars, the manual transmission 240D in particular. I will take your questions in order:

The odometer is easily fixed by you if you are willing to give up the use of the trip odometer. What happens is that the trip odometer wears and puts drag on the mechanism. To easily make the main odometer function again, you will find a plastic spur gear on the side of the mechanism that mechanically connects the trip odometer and the main odometer. Remove that spur gear and your main odometer will function just fine.

I have used Chevron Delo 400 multigrade for many years and saw my original 240D engine go 380,000 miles by changing the oil and filter every 3,000 miles and draining the oil an extended period of time with the engine hot when pulling the plug. I personally would not change to synthetic at this stage of the engines life. Delo is designed SPECIFICALLY for diesels and does a great job of handling the soot problem present in diesels. If you do decide to switch to synthetic, I strongly recommend that you use Mobil Delvac One rather than regular Mobil One. The Delvac one, like the Delo is designed and blended specifically for diesel engine use to handle the soot dispersal.

I have used Mobil One 5W30 in my 240D manual transmission with great success. The car has 533,000 miles and the manual transmission still works perfect and has never been apart. Although some of the 123 owners manuals list ATF for manual transmissions, these manuals were written 20 years ago. In that time ATF has gone through major changes and improvements intended to help AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS. As a result, modern ATF's are not healthy for many seals found in units other than AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS. If you still insist on using ATF in your manual transmission, I strongly recommend finding some Type A transmission fluid. It will do away with the risk of losing a seal. Changing the lubricant in this transmission is extremely simple. Simply put a drain pan underneath and remove the fill plug first. It normally requires a 14mm allen, but is easily removed with a pair of channel lock pliers. After the fill plug is removed (you remove it first to ensure that it will come out and you don't get stuck with an empty transmission that you can't refill) remove the drain plug at the bottom. Once the lubricant is drained, replace and tighten the drain plug, then fill through the fill plug with Mobil One 5W30 or whatever you decide to use, then replace the fill plug and tighten.

As a previous poster pointed out, you should probably check the shifter bushings, but I think the long throw is just different than whatever car you are used to. You will get used to it.

The reason your paint looks so good is because in the early eighties these cars had a solvent based clear coat. It was probably the best paint ever put on a production car. In the late eighties the tree huggers forced the car companies to move to a water based clear coat that is one of the crappiest paint ever put on a car. My 240D looks better than my 300E for this reason and it has never been waxed, the solvent based clear coats just don't require wax.

My 240D has European lights and I love them, but they are not as necessary on the 123 as they are on the 124. The 124 has HORRIBLE

Miles,

Congratulations on the "new" car.

I have driven beaucoup miles in the 123 cars, the manual transmission 240D in particular. I will take your questions in order:

The odometer is easily fixed by you if you are willing to give up the use of the trip odometer. What happens is that the trip odometer wears and puts drag on the mechanism. To easily make the main odometer function again, you will find a plastic spur gear on the side of the mechanism that mechanically connects the trip odometer and the main odometer. Remove that spur gear and your main odometer will function just fine.

I have used Chevron Delo 400 multigrade for many years and saw my original 240D engine go 380,000 miles by changing the oil and filter every 3,000 miles and draining the oil an extended period of time with the engine hot when pulling the plug. I personally would not change to synthetic at this stage of the engines life. Delo is designed SPECIFICALLY for diesels and does a great job of handling the soot problem present in diesels. If you do decide to switch to synthetic, I strongly recommend that you use Mobil Delvac One rather than regular Mobil One. The Delvac one, like the Delo is designed and blended specifically for diesel engine use to handle the soot dispersal.

I have used Mobil One 5W30 in my 240D manual transmission with great success. The car has 533,000 miles and the manual transmission still works perfect and has never been apart. Although some of the 123 owners manuals list ATF for manual transmissions, these manuals were written 20 years ago. In that time ATF has gone through major changes and improvements intended to help AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS. As a result, modern ATF's are not healthy for many seals found in units other than AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS. If you still insist on using ATF in your manual transmission, I strongly recommend finding some Type A transmission fluid. It will do away with the risk of losing a seal. Changing the lubricant in this transmission is extremely simple. Simply put a drain pan underneath and remove the fill plug first. It normally requires a 14mm allen, but is easily removed with a pair of channel lock pliers. After the fill plug is removed (you remove it first to ensure that it will come out and you don't get stuck with an empty transmission that you can't refill) remove the drain plug at the bottom. Once the lubricant is drained, replace and tighten the drain plug, then fill through the fill plug with Mobil One 5W30 or whatever you decide to use, then replace the fill plug and tighten.

As a previous poster pointed out, you should probably check the shifter bushings, but I think the long throw is just different than whatever car you are used to. You will get used to it.

The reason your paint looks so good is because in the early eighties these cars had a solvent based clear coat. It was probably the best paint ever put on a production car. In the late eighties the tree huggers forced the car companies to move to a water based clear coat that is one of the crappiest paint ever put on a car. My 240D looks better than my 300E for this reason and it has never been waxed, the solvent based clear coats just don't require wax.

My 240D has European lights and I love them, but they are not as necessary on the 123 as they are on the 124. The 124 has HORRIBLE US lights. The 123 has sealed beams. There are some excellent sealed beam replacements on the market that use an H4 bulb. These are inexpensive, very easy to install and do a great job. Unless you want Euro lights for how they look, the Hella replacements would provide great light. Actually now that Halogen sealed beams are so readily available (they weren't when these cars were new) they do a very good job.

Enjoy,

Congrats on your new purchase, Miles81_240d!

I'm jealous as all hell. It seem like your questions have been pretty well answered, I'd just like to add a thing about taking apart the speed/odometer unit. I recently did this because I wanted to roll forward my odometer so it is the same a the original speedo. After I took the unit apart and screwed with the numbers and got all the gears back in and put the unit back together, the speedo was dead! I think somehow I must have ruined the filament that is inside a little vaccume in the unit. So I guess what I am saying is if you do take it apart, bre careful and note how it will go back together. You might also consider simply buying a used instrument cluster on ebay. They go for about $30-$40. That way you have an extra incase other gauges die.

Oh yeah..if you take the cluster out, you might as well replace the lightbulbs and paint the prism reflectors white, to increase the visibility of the clustrer at night. Do a search and you should find directions on doing this.

Congratulations and good luck with your new car.

P.S. LarryBible, Your 240D has to be the most beautiful W123 ever! Is it back on the road or still sitting in the field looking great? The picture you posted a while ago is terrific. If you ever want to sell it......you know where to ask. The more miles you put on it, the better.

__________________
Sean Roland

2004 Saab 9-5 AERO 138k (for sale)
2000 VW Jetta GLS TDI 215k (sold)
1999 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 - 132k (sold)
1999 Saab 9-3se -- 84k (sold)
1986 MB 190e 2.3 16v -- 221K (sold)
1985 MB 190e 2.3 16v euro -- 145k (junked)
1992 Saab 9000t 5sp. -- 142k (sold)
1994 Subaru Legacy -- 264K (sold)
1998 Audi A4 1.8TQ -- 102k (sold)
1983 MB 240D stick -- 160k (sold)
1988 Saab 900SPG -- 156K (sold)
1983 MB 300D -- 270K project or parts (sold)
1986 MB 280SE Euro stick -- 150K (sold)

m81, appreciate your sharing at some later time figures relating to oil consumption and fuel mileage on your new purchase.

Miles81_240D,

Congratulations on a great decision and a great buy! The answers to your questions above are pretty complete, so I won't repeat any. The transmissions in these cars seem bullet proof to me, as I have never worn out a clutch and have never, ever, taken anything on the transmission apart for any reason. I, like Larry, have driven these cars many hundreds of thousands of miles. The whirring or rolling noise you hear may, or most likey may not, be associated with the transmission. These cars have a driveshaft center support bearing that is mounted in a bracket that has a bonded rubber donut around the OD of the bearing and ID of the bracket. As the rubber ages and dies, it cracks and eventually the bearing starts making enough noise that the damaged isolation of the rubber donut can no longer manage, and you hear the bearing going bad. There are some other items in the drivetrain that can make noises too, but it is unlikely it is the transmission.

Changing the oil in the transmission and differential will give you an opportunity to examine the whole drive train to see what is up, and the chances are the existing oil is due for a change anyway. Both units have a 14mm Allen head hex screw that plugs the fill (on the passenger side, about half way up the transmission and differential housings) and the drain opennings. I believe they are pipe threads or some tapered thread arrangement, so I end up tapping the Allen wrench with a hammer to break them loose and to tighten them so they don't fall out. Like others I use synthetic oils here (and in the engine), and I do not use ATF in the manual transmission. I have had good experiences with a RedLine Oil Company product, a special formulation for manual transmissions and another product for differentials. This stuff costs twice as much as other oils but lasts and gives good, smooth shifting characteristics. Any good quality oil will likely do the same though.

Enjoy your new car, for many, many miles! Good luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Miles--

It's kind of tricky filling the tranny and differential. I made up a filling device by attaching a funnel to about 5' of plastic hose. I run the hose from the engine compartment down to the tranny, and pour the ATF (or oil) in the funnel. On the differential, you can run the hose from the top of a rear wheel down to the differential.

You can "pump" the oil into the tranny and differential, but it usually makes quite a mess.

Again, congrats on the new purchase! Just one thought about the noise you are hearing...

I have had a couple customers with 240Ds who came in with similar symptoms. Both times it was the differential whining. It's not going to come apart on you or anything like that, but will just annoy you. It's also rather uncommon for them to scream, but it's just a thought.

__________________
Regards,
Aaron

Welcome to the 'club' and congrats!

Stay with the DELO 400 15/40 for oil change every 3000 to 3500 miles. Use the 'search' feature to find the many posts about engine oil. Get Hengst filters from this sites Fast Lane.

Odometer, I don't know.

The owners manual for my 82 says "1.4 US qt., SAE 10 W/20 W-20" for the manual tranny.

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1982 240D 313,000 (4 speed)
1984 300CD 172,483
1985 German Shepherd Dog -Lacey- R.I.P.11/04/05

Hood Stars, Wrist Crowns and Obsession Dobs

Whew.. well its comforting to know that there doesnt seem to be anything majorly wrong with the car, based on everybody's opinions!.. i wonder about the "Center support Bearing" that someone mentioned above...its that an expensive job to get fixed? I would certainly get that done if its not too steep of a repair.. Also- i hear that there's a "flex disc" of some kind that often times wears out... would this be a good thing to investigate on the car?..Btw- All your info has been *GREATLY* appreciated!!!

-Miles

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milesb@mac.com

The flex disks can be easily inspected by crawling under the car - one in front next to transmission and one in the back next to differential. I recently replaced one of mine, it was broken and when you took off fast it made a metallic noise. It was probably twisting so much it was going metal to metal with something. It did not make noise running down the road.

Center bearing is probably the noise maker - should be able to tell by inspecting, if it needs replacement. The drive shaft has to be removed to change it - at least a 4 hour job for a pro; the bearing costs about $30. If you do it yourself, make sure you mark all components with white paint, as it has to all go back together the same to maintain balance. There are posts to search on for more details. A Haynes manual has a good procedure for this job.

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1976 240D
1987 560SL
2007 E320 Bluetec
1998 C280 (now son’s car)
1982 240D Manual - Sold