Thank you tjts1 for that video! Very interesting!

Notice that there are a couple w123 chassis. Both times the driver doesn't hit the top of the steering wheel and especially doesn't come anywhere near the windshield.

My first auto was a Ford Focus ZXW with safety package. This meant A.B.S. and side airbags. Well, I was young and experienced, had to swerve, spun out across seven lanes of traffic, got out of the spin, but too late and slammed into the center concrete divider at about 55M.P.H.. The passenger front hit first and the body buckled in about eight places. None of the air bags went off and got severe wip lash I still suffer from all these years later. All the doors were stuck shut and cabin integrity was compromised. So airbags are useless devices demanded by the Federal Government further meddling with liberty, that are only to raise the astronomical purchase price.

Before this accident, I was cut off by a Nissan Sentra while driving my 1971 Volkswagen Squareback. The Nissan didn't stop, but I did see that the driver's rear wheel well was pushed up to the front door, so can say for certain it was totaled. As for the Squareback, a crumple zone was enacted which I still need to pull out with a frame machine. But, drove it afterwards until I parked her due to the amount of rust that made me feel uncomfortable. The rest of the damage cost about $25 for new fender, headlight, turn signal, and bumper. Who really won?

In short, today's vehicles are so poorly built due to a Federal agency not controlled by the People demanding effieciency only obtainable with extreme weight reduction that compromises safety. I rather be in an older heavy classic then a modern sardine can. I just can't see how that chart is correct.

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Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Waiting for heart surgery.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016 and now looking for a new home.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1964 Volkswgen Beetle - Vater's since September 1968 and undergoing a restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Vacationing with her caretaker until he is in better health.

interesting tidbit-

the wifes 85 wagon had gas pretensioners like that, but during rust repair authorized by the po, the heat from welding nearby caused them both to fire, which renders them useless.

her car now has older 123 seatbelt assemblies in it.
basically its worth removing these devices to protect them if you have any rust work in the vacinity.

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

That's in large part because the W123 has a much more upright windshield than a modern car.

I wouldn't say that airbags are completely useless, but they are very far from being the best in crash safety. A few weeks ago at Gilles Villenneuve Massa and Perez both smacked the wall HARD and walked away. They did this without the benefit of airbags. The main things that saved them from injury were the six point harness and the very strong survival cell the cockpit sits in.

I don't know if you've noticed, but today's cars are obese. They're filled with useless garbage, only some of which is demanded by the government. The other stuff is there to fill customer desires. Ten speaker stereos, electric windows, electric seats, navigation systems, entertainment systems, climate control systems, carpets, and sound insulation add up to a lot of weight.

It's even worse on newer cars. I worked on a 2006 or 2007 model truck last week that had a list of ten or twelve things that need to be disconnected before you can do any welding on the truck.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

What theory?

My Focus was a 2007, the last model year and thus why I didn't get another.

The placard for the Mercedes states 4,300 pounds.

The 240 I gave to a friend, but had to be one of the safest I have driven. Volvos were the safest for decades and it also felt safe. However, it had not had the air bag checked like it should, so could be a hazard. The air bag components only have a life of 10 years, I.I.R.C.. Plus, doesn't have the room, the classiness, or a diesel engine of the Mercedes. Also on the individual basis I didn't have as much information and wasn't as well sorted.

The type 3 chassis was released in 1961 and significantly redesigned in 1969 decades before the type 1 (1934 I.I.R.C.). It was designed with crumple zones, collapsing steering column, and padded dash. This means the type 3 do way better than the crash test video. The advantage the Squareback has over the Focus is no engine to go into the cabin. Further, the windshield isn't right in your face.

I also have first hand experience. Both times the impact was at the passenger front fender, the Squareback at a combined speed over 65M.P.H. and the Focus at 55M.P.H.. In the case of the Volkswagen it was able to be driven after the accident as no suspension damage, one body buckle, and I only had minor whip lash; not even my glasses came off. However, the Focus had a busted axle that jammed into the power plant, eight body buckles, and had severe whip lash for which I had to be treated for weeks and never fully healed.

That makes a lot of since, Skippy! So then it is give and take. Once the windshields started leaning way back the air bags were needed to protect ones head from hitting the windshield.

What happened to those great air bags when I had my accident? Of all the incidents I have heard about, not one had air bags go off. One was when a family member head on hit a cow at 70M.P.H. on a dark country road. There was no air bag to protect them. So what good do air bags do?

My point should have been made more clear, tut mir leid. I should have said hevier guage steel. Punch a W123, an American auto before the oil embargo, heck I will even let someone punch the Squareback (the fender I am replacing though )! Then punch a modern vehicle and will do damage. The gauge steel is way less and that was my initial point.

On the point of heavy, the lighter and more nimble a vehicle handles, including engine performance, does help with safety. It is better to avoid an accident than be in one. The Volkswagen can be driven like a motorcycle in the way it can be whipped around. Those kind of maneuvers have saved me many a time and reduce the impact of the accident.

This remindes me two lessons I learned from the last accident. First, know yourself. I have a low blood sugar condition and can really affect mental clarity when too low because I haven't eaten enough. Not only had I not eaten breakfast or intake of calories, I hadn't had very much quality sleep. So I was basically driving intoxicated meaning my reaction times were way down. Even the six second space was enough. Second, keep your autos maintained! I had severe slop in the suspension but was told by the mechanic it was fine. However, when I needed the most grip the suspension wasn't able to fully transmit the forces and stop the vehicle in a reasonable manner. It was corrected right after the accident, except for the guide rods and springs; still need to find a suspension shop.

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Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Waiting for heart surgery.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016 and now looking for a new home.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1964 Volkswgen Beetle - Vater's since September 1968 and undergoing a restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Vacationing with her caretaker until he is in better health.

Thats GROSS weight. That includes the car + its maximum legally allowed payload.

I really doubt the Squareback is safer than the MK2 golf in that video and that MK2 is a disaster in an offset frontal offset crash. The current "small overlap" crash tests where all the energy of the crash is concentrated into 20% of the car's front end are pure death even for many modern cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkX16uDkHm8

I'm sorry you were involved in a couple of bad accidents but that doesn't disprove the thousands of well documented crash tests conducted over the past 40 years. With every new generation vehicle safety has consistently improved.
https://www.youtube.com/user/iihs/videos
Epidemiological data on real world mortality rates also backs this up.

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CENSORED due to not family friendly words

Interesting, as that is no more than 800 pounds, put the stated payload is at least 1,000 pounds I.I.R.C. and had it way over that with a trailer. Not that it is a good idea every day...

I would say for an early non-air bag equipped wasser Volkswagen be about the same for an air cooled. The difference and what makes an air cooled Volkswagen safe is not having the engine in front. What I have seen happen is the damage stops at the front suspension which is slightly forward of the cabin. You can search and see the same thing. I can see your point that in any vehicle focusing the energy to a small point significantly increases damage. I am sure most vehicles be a lost cause. To then say one is safer than another is a invaluable argument, right?

The Federal government has rigged the tests so the air bags go off. In the real world they don't go off near as much. So how can the data not lie when the results are not real world? Or, are they? If so, where from? I just want to understand how death rate has reduced despite only slight improvements in safety.

In the end, in any severe accident most folks will not walk away and have a high chance for death. I rather drive something I enjoy and die happy then to drive one of these blobs with no personality and live miserable. I would figure most folks on here feel the same way, right?

You only have one day and live it to the fullest!

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Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Waiting for heart surgery.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016 and now looking for a new home.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1964 Volkswgen Beetle - Vater's since September 1968 and undergoing a restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Vacationing with her caretaker until he is in better health.

The low weight limit MBNA's legal out in the US market. The legal weight limit is far higher outside the US. Same goes for towing limits.
W123-300TDT-Abmessung/en
Notice the kerb weight is 1600kg (3570LB) but max payload is 610kg (1344LB) in Europe. You could load your US car to that 1344LB limit but if something mechanical should go wrong, don't expect any sympathy from MB.
The tests I linked above are conducted by the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway safety). They are anything but the government. They buy cars off dealer lots in secret and run their own independent crash tests. Insurance companies use the data to determine insurance premiums. Its in their economic best interest to find the safest cars and publicly shame the least safe, thats why all the tests are on youtube. Theres been many cases where they forced a manufacturer to recall and modify cars after a bad IIHS test score.

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CENSORED due to not family friendly words

I posted these pics in another thread, but here are some smashed up 116 pics that are interesting to consider when thinking about these old cars in the safety realm-




crumple zones worked, but realisticially the driver at least was probably injured in this accident

passenger, probably no passenger in this car, but if there were, leg damage probable-



driver- looks like at minimum, the drivers head was pitched through the side window and clearly hit the steering wheel really hard.



what I found most interesting, is that the most severe side of the accident is not as badly deformed as the opposite side, the 617 was forced down and into the transmission tunnel, buckling the floor and pitching the driver seat up and over. Who knows what speed this happend, but the body of the car was mostly straight still. The front doors would even latch.

The cars are tough, but improvements in passenger protection are far beyond the mercedes of this era.

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.