Govt. clamping down on diesels - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

charmalu · #1 07-25-2015, 03:25 AM

It`s coming guys. There is that thread about how long are they going to let us drive our old Diesels.
Crap starts in Kali and then pollutes the rest of the country.

I came across this CL add, though it is for larger rigs like this bus conversion.
Re: 1973 GMC Coach Conversion *BEWARE*

It`s interesting what the mechanic wrote about this add, and the tier 4 emissions CA is implementing. and soon NV, AZ, WA. to follow.
It`s coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

Some of you on the forum have Motor Coaches or conversions so a heads up.

I have always loved the sound of an old Detroit 2 cycle.
You either love them or hate them. I wanted a 4-53 turbo with a Jake on it for a PU install. I`ve seen a few around.

We`ll all be driving these POS cars we have to wind up and wear they are so small. Wonderful..just wonderful, can`t wait to try one out....not.

Here is what the mechanic wrote.

Nice GM bus, that is worthless due to California's soon to be implemented (2016)Tier 4 Air Quality Engine restrictions for vehicles over 24ft long.

Not to mention, they waited until the end of the ad to reveal that the
engine would have to be pulled and rebuilt. I work as a mechanic at a truck repair
shop at the Love's truckstop off 40 in Kingman. That's a $12,000.oo
repair, on a diesel engine that's about to be outlawed. (All the old 2-cycle Detroit diesels will be banned due to massively excessive pollution) What a waste of
time to read that whole ad. That bus is headed for the scrapyard, or permanent parking at a hunting camp.
We got the bulletin in February from the State of Nevada Dept of
Transportation, Bureau of Automotive Repair, which states that after
June 1st, 2016, we are no longer allowed by law to offer "replacement
or rebuild" repair of the GM two-cycle 53, 71, 92 and 112 series
2-cycle supercharged engines that were registered in California, and
that after Jan 1st, 2020, it will be forbidden in the state of Az as
well, due to two cycle engines not being adaptable to the new state
pollution standards for heavy duty vehicles. These coaches, even
though they are now privately owned, if they were "originally purpose
built for commercial use" they are included in the new emission
legislature. To repair these vehicles, they will have to be repowered
with "Tier 4 or better emission capable engines" I have heard that
Washington, Oregon and Nevada are soon to follow suit. We have already
had owners in here griping to us about this, as we are the only John
Deere (Tier 4 and 5) r/v repower dealer in town. It's not our fault,
nor did we have any say in the matter. If anything, it hurts our
business, due to our massive(and now useless) Detroit repair parts
inventory. We were the only place between Las Vegas and Phoenix that
still maintained a new parts warehouse for the older Detroits.

Charlie

sent from my pos computer

JB3 · #2 07-25-2015, 06:16 AM

I would not worry.

There is a big difference between a pollution spewing 2 cycle detroit diesel in an antique commercial vehicle and our 4 cycle diesels.

Stretch · #3 07-25-2015, 06:44 AM

I'm sorry to agree with the doomsayers but this really is the thin edge of the wedge.

Things are getting worse and worse over here for old diesels (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/330540-how-much-longer-will-they-let-us-drive-our-old-diesels.html)...

...I think it is only a matter of time before things change the world over.

It might not seem like it but I do actually applaud real attempts made for cleaner air (such as technological improvements) - BUT - I don't think the way in which governments are doing this is good. There is no point - what so ever - in increasing waste. Pollution "happens" in many different ways - just banning older vehicles is stupid - because you have to create so much waste and use so much energy to replace them.

I don't think the current hybrid / battery powered vehicles are going to work out on the final balance sheet as being "greener" especially when battery packs need to be replaced within a decade of use - for some vehicles more than half of the vehicle needs to be replaced within ten years! Madness!

JB3 · #4 07-25-2015, 07:09 AM

Cant speak to europe, but charmalu you need to check out the specifics of the tier 4 rules.

All about commercial plated vehicles, pretty sure motor homes are exempt, as well as historic plated vehicles.

My reading of the rules indicates that you could not use this to haul passengers for a business without making it compliant, but you may be able to plate it as a personal motor home as is.

The tier 4 rules have been a known quantity for 11 years for commercial vehicles. This is like taking federal operation and safety regulations for train operation, and applying it to your basement train set.

In other words, if there is still a way to drive a pollution spewing 2 stroke 70s diesel bus more than24 feet long under tier 4 rules, arent you borrowing trouble worrying about your 30 year old 4 stroke passenger car being impacted?

oldsinner111 · #5 07-25-2015, 07:14 AM

I think its a shame when diesel fuel,can be made to not polute.It is the oil companies,that hold up production of any alternatives.What happened with Audi's diesel made from carbon,and water? It was in the news a couple of months back.It seems they were shut up too.The wealthy powerful ruling class must be stopped,at what they are doing.We don't need urea,we need better fuels.

tjts1 · #6 07-25-2015, 07:23 AM

I come here looking for gloom and doom, instead I find the rantings of some old crackpot that wants to drive around in a 2 stroke diesel powered bus from the 60s. Do you know that a 2 stroke Detroit diesel looks, sounds or smells like? I'm greatful for the fact that "Kali" and the adjacened states are smart enough to take that garbage off the road. If it costs some nut job his hobby, fine that's a small price to pay for cleaner air. And your whole slippery slope argument is complete nonsense. The heavy duty diesel CARB rules that "Kali" and 14 other states adopted have been on the books for a decade and are being implemented in stages to take all pre 08 heavy duty diesel engines off the road. These engines produce orders of magnitute more pulution than the tiny population of old diesel cars on the road. States know this that's why they've left old diesel cars alone.

To recap, please don't confuse this

With this

Otherwise you might end up looking stupid like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsinner111

I think its a shame when diesel fuel,can be made to not polute.It is the oil companies,that hold up production of any alternatives.What happened with Audi's diesel made from carbon,and water? It was in the news a couple of months back.It seems they were shut up too.The wealthy powerful ruling class must be stopped,at what they are doing.We don't need urea,we need better fuels.

Come to "Kali". Under the terrible tyrany of CARB we have cheap 56 cetane conventional diesel and cheap 75 cetane renewable diesel made from plan and animal fats that puts biodiesel to shame in every way. both burn substantially cleaner and quieter than diesel fuel I've bought outside the state.

The state gov is now pushing to reduce its petroleum consumption by 50% by 2030 so we'll be getting a whole lot more of these fuels (including the audi fuel mentioned above) while the rest of the country gets left behind.

Stretch · #7 07-25-2015, 07:59 AM

Unfortunately over here =>

This

and even this

isn't allowed in some places

Like I said - I'm sorry to be with the doomsayers but I reckon the future will be diesel free (whether it is reasonable or not).

tjts1 · #8 07-25-2015, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Unfortunately over here =>

This

and even this

isn't allowed in some places

Like I said - I'm sorry to be with the doomsayers but I reckon the future will be diesel free (whether it is reasonable or not).

Thats only because you don't have enough of these.

Go visit the boys hanging out in the Politics and Religion section, they'll tell you all about it.

Stretch · #9 07-25-2015, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Thats only because you don't have enough of these.

Go visit the boys hanging out in the Politics and Religion section, they'll tell you all about it.

Yeah - thing is in certain parts of Europe the gun to person population density is actually higher than the US and we still get bulldozered by silly governmental policies!

Phillytwotank · #10 07-25-2015, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

cheap 75 cetane renewable diesel made from plan and animal fats that puts biodiesel to shame in every way.

I understand you like it and all but you keep trying to argue this and it is simply false.

You're framing your argument on an absolute statement. C'mon... You know that's not goin to hold up when you really dig into the facts.

tjts1 · #11 07-25-2015, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillytwotank

I understand you like it and all but you keep trying to argue this and it is simply false.

You're framing your argument on an absolute statement. C'mon... You know that's not goin to hold up when you really dig into the facts.

Ok, go ahead dig into the facts and prove me wrong, I dare you. Which part of the above "absolute statement" you quoted is false?

marybeth · #12 07-25-2015, 10:37 AM

They can have my Diesel when they pry my greasy oil stained fingers out from under the hood of the car...

Mxfrank · #13 07-25-2015, 11:15 AM

Gee. I can't imagine why these noisy engines would be considered gross polluters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVjXwS8HzFw

I'm glad to see these go.

vstech · #14 07-25-2015, 11:20 AM

It's all right there in the second amendment. .. The right to short sleeves and greasy hands. How can they take away the diesel motor we all love with this amendment on the books?

Phillytwotank · #15 07-25-2015, 11:45 AM

Not to jack this thread...but real quick.

"Puts biodiesel to shame in EVERY way" is both and absolute statement and your own subjective opinion. Biodiesel has nothing to be ahamed of. If we dig deep into the particulars of many "Green Enery" alternatives I'm positive that we will find lots of pros and cons for each. To make a claim that one is catigoricaly superior than any other cannot be true.

I'm cool with renewable diesel as a fuel product. If I had a available option to get pure HPR rather than petroD it in my tank I definitely would choose HPR. We don't have that option here tho... But it is blendend in with the general diesel supply unbeknownst to us consumers because it is made by petroleum companies and they approve of it being blended directly into the pipeline supply. We get green diesel here and most don't even know.

I have pure bio D so that's what I use. I'm not going to sit here an claim that "Biodiesel is a superior fuel to Diesel HPR". It works just fine for me. so, in my case and for others like me it is true to say that HPR does not put Biodiesel to shame in every way.