This proves that you can never underestimate "STUPID".

A local 1995 (ford) F250 diesel owner has been struggling to start up every morning since buying it January 2015.

I have helped, talked with, warned him at least 100 times.

* I explained how CRITICAL the start up glow plug cycle is.

* I explained how CRITICAL GOOD glow plugs are to starting.

* I warned him "NEVER USE STARTING FLUID".

I have been "RESOUNDINGLY IGNORED".

.

This morning I was awakened by a loud " BOOM", followed by clang, clang, clang of a horrible piston rod noise.

I got up to do my last moment holiday shopping.

Going to my car (no coffee yet), he hollerd for me to come help start his truck.

(thinking, ok, it is the holiday, i will be kind).

I drive around the block to his house and park.

He asks me to crank it, while he tinkers under the hood.

I twist the ignition, and the lock sticks in the crank position, clang, clang, clang sounds like a broken piston rod.

As I am beating the steering column / trying to free the lock, he is screaming + trying to pull the battery cables off.

The lock popped back to the run position, and the engine is actually running clang, clang, clang.

He slammed the hood, I jumped out stumbled, falling over empty starting fluid cans.

He jumped in and tried to take off.

There was a LOUD grind, rip, crunch, followed by silence.

I pulled two business cards from my wallet, towing + junk yard.


I happily drove away to my local COFFEE shop...
.

__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

https://www.boldegoist.com/

Yup, you just can't help stupid....

It's a tough 7.3 that takes a year's worth of abuse.

Sixto
83 300SD

My Dodge/Cummins is interesting. While it DEFINITELY starts better at below maybe 50 or so, it will start with maybe just a bit more cranking than w/o the glow cycle. I try to remember but it doesn't seem very fussy about it. Above 55 or so it starts the same with or without a glow. I've NEVER used starter fluid.

The Mercedes in Mutt, on the other hand, wants glowed pretty much every time I crank it, even if it's warmed up. Not sure what's up with that. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the new pump.

My buddy's 7.3 Ford/Navistar is like Mutt - needs a glow pretty much every time. I suspect it's a characteristic of that combustion chamber design but I'm guessing.

Dan

Ya, you can lead a horse to water, but ya can`t make em drink.

Amazing the guy didn`t blame you for braking his engine, since you were turning the ignition.

Whada dumb a$$. You can get away with things for a while. but eventually they catch up with you.
Stay away from stupid people, I hear it`s catching. LOL

Guy must have been taking these.


"]





My 86 Ford 6.9 needs GP`s, Bought a set of Motorcrafts last year but was in the middle of a move from Ca. to Nv.
and didn`t want to possibly brake one off.
Could have had Autolites in there.

Now winter is on us, and I can`t find the dang things. HF Heat gun down the intake works for now.


Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Strange, once I get the 6.9 running and she is all warmed up, actually don`t need the GP`s the rest of the day even if she has been sitting several hours.

In the morning if it 60 or above, the few GP`s that work will kick her over.
However now with this cold weather we have been having, if she sits maybe 3 hrs in the 20 something degrees, she almost does not want to go.
Several nights ago I went through this, I had driven her already 30 miles or so.
Not sure if the cold (26 deg) the relay would not clickon after 6 trys.
Finally tried WD40 w/o any results. About ready to call AAA and tried one more time, and it clicked on and she fired.
Just about buried the culti sac in smoke LOL.

Our 300D always had to do a full glow each time, but the 240D with 383K miles kicks right over w/o much of a glow. Once warmed up never need to glow, just turn the key.


Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Huh, my om617 isn't too picky about glowing. If I've driven it in the last few hours I don't even bother glowing. It always starts right up first turn of the starter happy as could be.

I had a job one winter in Maine and my work truck was a ford 7.3 turbo idi, talk about a miserable machine in the cold.

I also lived on a boat with an ancient volvo penta 2003 series, 3 cylinder engine that didn't have glow plugs. The stupid thing probably had low compression and injectors that peed fuel. It was a miserable engine to start at any temperature. Now that I think back to that thing, it would probably have helped considerably if I'd taken the grid heater out of a cummins and modified it to fit.

Wow.

My former boss has a early 2000s 7.3 in his truck. was having issues starting it while I still worked for him, had me pick him up at his mechanics shop, where it had been on and off for a couple weeks.

they had it running when we got there, charged him 2 grand for a bunch of silly stuff, and the very next day it wouldn't start (it was about 40 outside), I was driving to work as I passed his house to see him outside with the hood up on his truck, so I stopped and he is spraying starter fluid madly into the intake and cranking it, he has me crank while he sprays, it comes knocking to life like you'd expect.

I asked if his mechanic changed the glow plugs, he said they told him they never need to be changed, thats not why it was hard to start.

After several days of hard starts he has me pick him up at the mechanics so he can drop it off again. while there I asked the mechanic about glow plugs and all the associated wiring, temp sensors and things that control them (with my w116 idling peacefully in the background), he says it could be the relay. I mention that I don't work on many diesels other than MB, but the relays are very simple to test with a voltmeter, but the glow plugs themselves are much cheaper and more difficult to determine if they are any good without removing them from the motor.

He changes the subject to how my car doesn't have carpet on the rear deck and the paint is peeling on my hood. I say "at least it starts, thats more than you've been able to get his ford to do"

My boss interjects that he would really like them to make absolutely certain the glow plugs are working because he sees how well my car starts and his truck hasn't ever started easily, and since he's writing the check so he wants them to check it out.

When we got in the car I said i didn't know ford diesels but if my car was starting like that I'd be buying a set of glowplugs before I even opened the hood.

The mechanic said they replaced the glow relay, charged him another 2 grand. then the truck would start ok, but if you waited for the glow cycle to finish it wouldn't start, you had to just get in and crank like it was a gasser.

I ended up quitting a while later, they hired new people for me to train to help do my job and paid them more than they were paying me.

My current 617s have very different starting routines. the blue car has what seems like a 5 second glow light then it starts every time, no problem.

my grey car starts quite easily but you have to hold your foot on the throttle, not much, just a tad. I think its a small fuel leak thats getting air into the system.

__________________
1982 300D (w123, "Grey Car")
1982 300D (w123, "Blue Car")
2001 Ford F150 "Clifford" (The Big Red Truck)
1997 Dodge Ram 2500 12V Cummins
1996 Dodge Ram 2500 12V Cummins
Previous Vehicles:
1995 E300D, 1980 300SD, 1992 Buick Century, 2005 Saturn Ion

Man, how hard can it be to start a diesel? Wait for the glow light to go out then crank. If it doesn't start, the glow plugs would be the first thing to check. You'd think that most modern diesels would give some kind of alert if the glow plugs are bad though. I remember from my dad's later diesel Benzes that the glow light would turn on after starting if one or more plugs were out. It's not rocket science. :-P
With Betsie I wait an additional few seconds after the light goes out, because it makes the difference between cranking for 1 second or a split second. I always pre-glow, even when the engine's warm.

My dad's 2006 C200 CDI you can start without glowing in almost any weather.

__________________
"The MB W123 is so bulletproof, you can drive them forever. Which is a good thing as it takes that long to get anywhere."
Betsie: 1984 W123 300D (hobby, 280k miles)
Myrla: 2001 Mazda Protege 2.0 ES 5spd (daily driver, 130k miles)
The Turd: 2007 Toyota Camry (wife's car, 118k miles)

This Ford Forum has some great info on the 6.9 and 7.3 Diesels.
The stickies at the top have it for both engines. 80 - 86 & 87 -94.
The early and later style GP systems.

Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L) - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Learning about these Ford Diesels is a new learning curve for me compared to the
simple way the MB Bosch system is.

I think the GP`s and Injectors are original.
When replacing the Injectors, you have to buy this special kit with plastic caps with 2 nipples, one for ea inj. and comes with "O" Rings and short hoses.

Then the Injection Pumps are short lived, and need to be replaced every 150K miles from what I read.
They are a round pump that lays flat in the front of the engine.
I don`t know how you would ever get the hard lines off it towards the bottom.

The GP if wired manually, do not glow more than 5 - 8 sec or they will burn out.
Not like the Bosch we use on the MB`s.

I have had this truck about 1 1/2 yrs and still look at the engine and think...WTF?

My fuel gauge quit about 3 wks ago, and reading the forum, it is the sending unit...which is in the tank.
So either drop the tank, or pull the bed. how special is that?


Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Great story, Hunter, I laughed out loud!

Sad though, that some folks don't get it. After a blown engine many years ago, I began to listen to my mechanical mentor Much More Closely. Eating Humble Pie is not tasty.

__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)

I was thinking if the GPs ever fail on the om606 which are a pain to replace, maybe I should just get an intake heater installed. Wonder how well that would work on an MB.

You'd probably be better off with a grid heater from a cummins, the 7.3 has glow plugs as well as that intake heater.

The cummins only has a grid heater, they look like this.


Although I'd probably just replace the glow plugs... I've found the best way to repair things is to do it properly. I've done a lot of halfassed repairs and the result is usually something that works halfassed...

starting fluid is bad,but I have used propane many times when glowplugs failed.I went thru glowplugs alot when running
wvo a set each year.

__________________
1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran