Trouble Setting IP Timing - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MBJOE · #16 12-28-2002, 07:03 PM

Larry I know what you are talking about when you say it is hard to reach that 27mm bolt from the top. The way I do it is to remove those bolts from the fan and take the fan and the shroud out, then you have free access to the crank bolt. It a PIA every time but it is the only way I have found to rotate the crank every time I try and set the IP. I have been through that process at least 3 times today.

MBJOE

#17 12-29-2002, 12:05 PM

Well, I had to give up on the 300D for now to make room in the shop for my 300E. It will have the shop tied up for several days awaiting parts. This is the only time of the year I get to tear it apart and do all those things that have stacked up.

I got the 300D back together after adjusting the valves, checking the chain, blocking off the egr valve, replacing a pretty clogged air filter and setting (I think) the IP timing. It still smokes like a teepee.

The only good news is that the transmission is now working perfectly.

When I free up the shop again, I'm going to do a compression check just to make SURE that there's nothing fundamentally wrong before I go to the trouble of replacing the pump and injectors.

I would trade this car for a decent manual transmission 240D with no hesitation. Is there someone who would like a solid non turbo 300D with good a/c, a/t, new tires, good brakes, but needs IP and/or injector attention? I would not sell or trade before doing a compression check to ensure that the buyer is indeed getting a solid, rebuilt engine.

Thank you for listening to myb frustration.

engatwork · #18 12-29-2002, 02:44 PM

Larry - LOL good try on trying to swap for a manual 240D

.
After having owned one for a couple months now I see what everyone has been talking about. Whenever I have to go somewhere I tend to take it and leave the 300TD at the house

.

Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with the IP timing. How old are the injectors? In talking with my injector man he said that if they "leak" they can cause smoking.

I hate to see you throw in the towel on the car but kinda know how you feel. Oh yea, another reason to hate automatic transmissions - we (my 14 yr old boy and I) just wrestled the one out of the 300D that I have the engine torn down in and I put it right up there at the top for pia jobs.

#19 12-29-2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

As I said, when I had the problem with that cylinder missing, I kept messing with it, and it finally started hitting.

First question what did you mess with to stop the miss?
Ok, I will add my own .02. I bought my car after it had been sitting for a long time. Bad fuel, the whole bit. After dealing with just getting it started it ran good sometimes, and somtimes not. Very random. I flushed the fuel system, had the tank cleaned, reset the valves and checked the timing. Everything seemed fine. So I decided to go back to basics. I started to crack the lines to the injectors, and to the pump while it was running. It took a while to figure it out, but no#2 injection port from the pump appeared to be sporatic. In other words sometimes it would squirt, and somtimes not. I checked several times and sometimes it seemed fine and other times I had nothing. I removed the check valve at the pump and looked at it very closely, but did not see anything that would cause it to not seat. I switched it with another check valve from another cylinder. but had the same results. I finally did what you should not do unless you tie off the fuel line to the pump, as you will tie the fuel system to the oil system and if you have a full tank, remember the theory water seeks its own level, the fuel will try to do the same. I removed the no2# cylinder from the IP pump after carefully marking the adjustment position. I exercised the throttle while watching the I.P piston. It is suppose to turn CW. It did, but when I grabbed it, I could stop it from turning. it was no longer connected to the rack in the I.P. The ball on the end of the control sleeve was gone. It was random as the rack would contact the control sleeve every once in a while. That is why it would run good sometimes, and other times smoke like crazy, or just miss. You could be idling, and that I.P cylinder could be positioned for full speed. If you want more info on this I think I posted pictures about a year ago. Incidently, the part that broke was $12.00 but the whole pump had to be dismantled. I did it myself as I did not want to pay $500.00 to 1K which I was quoted several times.

PeterG

79 300SD 80?K As I said, when I had the problem with that cylinder missing, I kept messing with it, and it finally started hitting.

Fisherman · #20 12-29-2002, 08:53 PM

Sounds silly but the way everyone talks it sounds like if you ever, ever take your IP aprat that you may as well throw it away...

So Peter, I have to ask. Is everything okay with your pump after you dismantled and reassembeled it?

Gutsy move....

#21 12-29-2002, 10:22 PM

Fisherman;

Yes, car runs very good, Gas milage is about 22, but I made the move last year to take the injectors apart, clean them, and calibrated them myself. Just this past weekend I made the same move except I replaced the nozzles in the injectors ($28.00 a piece) and had a local shop pop test and calibrate them ($9.00a piece). What a difference, the engine is smoother than it has ever been. I could put a cup of water on the air cleaner and it would not only stay in place, but would not slosh out. As far as the I.P is concerned, I owe a lot of credit to the people at Bosch. I gave them my I.P and governor part numbers, and they gave me an exploded view of the I.P. Then, on their web site you can order books on the principles of I.P and governors. I learned a lot. The short books are excellant ($9.00 a piece) if you want to learn the theory. If anybody is interested I can post the web address, and the books I purchased. The people at Bosch are top notch. Taking the pump apart was a little trickyer. The most difficult time I had was taking the flyweight carrier off, and removing the cam. once again I must say that the design of the pump is facinating. A cam with roller followers are what drives the little pistons up and down in the bores. I suspect the reason my no2# piston control sleeve failed is because of moisture. If the piston rust or bonds to the bore of the cylinder from rust, this can put undue stress on the ball on the end of the control sleeve, when the accelerator pedal is depressed. Word to the wise, if the car has been setting for a long time, crank it over before mashing that accelerator pedal down. The ball on the end of the control sleeves are welded or silver soldered, that may be the weakest link in the pump. By the time I got done with seals and gaskets o-rings and what appears to be like a freeze plug for access to internal keepers inside the pump, and the control sleeve, I had a total of about $75.00 in it. I did not adjust anything and did not disturb any of the other I.P calibration settings. I probably had about 8 hours into it, and probably more time in making a special tool to take the locknut off the flyweight carrier off. governor hub off. I guess I had nothing to lose. I got the car for almost nothing, I wasnt sure what was wrong with it because when I got it, the exhaust pipe had broken off the back of the turbo. I thought it was a back pressure problem, so I spent $250.00 (before I knew about this web site) for the flex pipe from the turbo, and still had this miss and smoke problem. I found the bad I.P control sleeve and figured if I screw up the pump, the worst I would have to do is by a rebuild. I really did not know what to expect from this car as the body was great but the engine I think was used and abused. It has really turned out quite well, but I did my homework before taking it apart. As far as anybody wanting to replace the seals if they are leaking, that would be easy and cheap, once you get the I.P off the car.

PeterG

Stevo · #22 12-29-2002, 10:42 PM

PererG

Ya, I would say gutsy too. thanks for the great run down. I would be interested in that web site and book info. I have heard taking a IP apart will cause all kinds of bad mo jo

to come down you.

jbaj007 · #23 12-29-2002, 10:47 PM

I've got a spare IP, it gets dark early, and my workbench is clear. I need a project!! Please post website, parts list , books and maybe a thread reference to your special tool.

Fisherman · #24 12-30-2002, 09:57 AM

Hey,
Maybe you should invite a couple of guyys over to watch you take it apart and then they can invite a couple of guys over to their places and so on and so on....

All of a sudden everyone will be taking apart their IPs...

Just kidding.

gsxr · #25 12-30-2002, 11:14 AM

Peter, yes, please post any Bosch information. I would really like a book that would detail pump diassasembly and/or repair, if that exists. An exploded view would be great too!

And btw, Joe, I have found that using the alternator nut works great for turning the engine in small increments (one degree or less). The p/s pump pulley works good for large rotations but I could never get fine movement with it. The dual V-belts on the alternator help!

Regards,

#26 12-30-2002, 07:48 PM

Here is the information on Bosch injection pumps. These are the books I purchased,
1. Diesel Fuel-Injection Equipment
governors for in-line pumps Part no 1- 987-722-163 $8.00
2. Diesel In-Line Fuel-Injection Pumps Part no 1-987-722-162 $8.00
3. Diesel fuel-injection an overview Part no 1-987-722-104 $8.00

This book (3) is mostly theory, polution control, but for $8.00 a piece you can't go wrong.

To GSXR,
I sent pictures home from my computer at work, but the dumb computer at home blocked them. Thursday when I get back to work I will download the pictures to disk and carry them home and post them. I have a picture of the tool I madeb also. As far as the exploded view I will have to scan it in and post it. Different cars have different pumps and governors. You have to get the part number off the side of the pump,
and the governor. Believe me its easyer off the car. Two different part numbers. Bosch if you give them the numbers will send or Fax you the exploded view with the bQuestion? how do you copy the HTML address on to this site. I tried to cut and paste, but no go. I purchased all the parts from an injection pump shop, but I will not publish until I get permission from the mediators as I don't want to cross Fastlane are friends. I don't think they can get the parts for pumps, but that may have changed since last year.
I hope this works.

To jbaj007 I will get the picture of the tool I made once I get back to work Thurs.

Happy New Year

www.boschservice.com/http-docs/access/booklets.html

PeterG

79 300 SD

gsxr · #27 12-30-2002, 11:00 PM

Peter, it looks like the URL posted fine - thanks! I searched from Boschusa.com and got nowhere. That link was awesome. Did you see the videos too? Wow. Too bad they're $40/each. I think I'll pick up some of the books, though. Thanks again!!

#28 01-02-2003, 01:56 PM

GSXR your welcome.

Now a new problem. Rebuilt my injectors about a week ago. This included removing the injector, disassembling them, sonic cleaned the bodies of the injector and internals, resassembled with genuine new Bosch nozzles, with clean diesel fuel, brought them to the local injection shop to pop test and calibrate, reisnstalled back into engine, and did not see any heat shields, or I don't no what they look like. the car purred no vibration or engine rocking or nailing. Drove the car 2 days, about a total of 70 miles, started it up this morning, and it was missing on one cylinder at first, and nailing. I did check the glow plugs several weeks ago and noted a 45 to 50 amp draw on the battery which I thought is normal (approx 10 amps per glow plug) I also did individual measurements of each plug and when first turned on they would draw between 9.5 to 10.5 Amps. Does anybody have any ideas why I picked up the miss again, and the nailing?

PeterG

79 300SD

gsxr · #29 01-02-2003, 02:18 PM

PeterG,

Wow - that's really odd. It is normal to have some of the same problems with new injectors but there shouldn't be a delayed reaction. The poor spray patterns from the old ones allow carbon deposits in the prechamber. Even though new injectors have a good pattern, it takes a while (few hundred to a thousand miles or so) for the good pattern to burn out the deposits. After they're gone, the car should run fine.

However, your car ran great right away with new injectors, which seems to me like your prechambers were probably clean (??). I haven't the foggiest why they started acting up again! Perhaps one of them got a tiny piece of debris in there that is making the pintle stick? Weird.

Your glow plug current draw is normal. You didn't mention if the noise goes away when warm or if it's only when cold. If only when cold, you'll need to remove each glow plug. If they fall right out, the prechamber is probably clean. If they are hard to remove, you have carbon deposits that are inhibiting glow plug performance... the carbon soaks the heat away to the head and doesn't allow the fuel to burn properly until warmed up. In that case you either need to use a reamer (wooden dowel should do it) or pull the prechambers & clean them.

HTH,

#30 01-02-2003, 03:45 PM

That's why this site is so great.

It does only do it when it is cold, always did it before, so I wonder if I do have a problem with a glow plug? If you read my earlier post, I also had the bad I.P pump and I wonder if that cylinder (2) could of gotten that badly carboned up? I have never checked the compression. Will low compression cause nailing? How hard are the prechambers to get out, and where do you get the tools to do so? If I saw a picture I might try to manufacturer it myself.

PeterG

79 300SD