Germans HATE MB diesels? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

coachgeo · #1 09-03-2003, 09:34 PM

Soooo.... what do yall think of this. A friend of mind from Germany PMed me this about diesel G-Wagens

Quote:

Mercedes had trouble with all diesel engines build after 85 (about 85).
The 300TD is a hated engine in Germany , it blows head gaskets.
The non Turbo was OK. After that the diesel engines from MB where POS. The 290GD lasts about 50k miles than its time for a new one , those damm heads always cracks and it loves to eat head gaskets. The 350 is the same POS ! CDI and CRD engines are the biggest crap on earth !! You are happy if you getting 20k miles out of them !! That is not my opinion that is the truth ! Go to a MB dealer in Germany and visit the repair shop ! Or go to a Jeep dealer in Germany (they have theCDI- CRD engines too) They hate those MB diesel engines . Everybody that has something to do with cars in Germany knows never buy an MB diesel. The 200 and 250 are the only engines that last 200k mile no problem. but those thing are super slow ! Oh I forgot the 400 CDI is an electronic nightmare, noboby realy knows how it lasts because they never realy run.
I know this stuff for sure because one of my friends in an Mercedes guy (engineer)and my other friend is an TUV inspector

kerry · #2 09-03-2003, 09:53 PM

That attitude does not seem a lot different from many people's opinion on this site, that the 616 and 617 were the high point of Mercedes diesels.
I met a Mercedes engineer in California a few months ago who worked on the 617 and the more recent diesels. He swore that the newer diesels were much better than the 617. He seemed to igonore my questions about aluminum heads.

Hawk180 · #3 09-03-2003, 11:44 PM

For people who hate them, there sure seems to be a lot of them on the road over there.

Gurkha · #4 09-04-2003, 02:31 AM

I have visited Germany many times since my brother lives there and can tell you that most Germans dont have good opinion on their own labels like BMW and MB and are also not too happy about the high cost of ownership of these badges. They as one German doctor I met there would rather prefer Honda, Mazda and Lexus and to quote him ' would leave the MB, BMW badges to rich outsiders': end quote.

Speaking of crakcked heads, my aunt's 300E developed cracked heads after 32K miles and so did her friend's. I would agree with others here that OM 616/617 were the best MB ever made.

#5 09-04-2003, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurkha
I would agree with others here that OM 616/617 were the best MB ever made.

I too agree. I have likely pounded my 300TD more in 7 months than it has ever been run in its 21 years of life. Other than the #1 cylinder nailing it runs like gold.

DslBnz · #6 09-04-2003, 09:15 AM

Except for the cracked original head on the car, my 300SDL has had zero problems throughout it's lifetime. I have known 300SDL's with over 400K miles on them. Going strong too, I might add.

As far as overall ruggedness, and durability the OM617, 616 engines are unbeatable, though. But the six cylinder isn't far behind.

I never have to do valve adjustments on a OM603 motor!

I do agree that the new diesels seem to be too complicated. Electronic fuel injection common rail technology and other innovations are nice. Except, the reason I have a diesel is never to be stuck on the side of the road somewhere.

If the charge in the new cars is low(Altenator), then the CDI diesel WILL IN FACT LEAVE YOU STRANDED ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. A gasser will do the same thing! I don't know much else about the CDI's, but I know I'd much rather have a nicely kept 4-sp 240D then a brand-new S400 CDI.:p

If the CDI engine only lasts 20K miles, that would be fine. That would mean I would have a car for life, with 4yr or 50K miles warranty on each motor!

What was said about the E290 turbodiesel is true. They didn't last long until Mercedes started having problems with them.

P.E.Haiges · #7 09-04-2003, 09:34 AM

Dslbnz,

How true about the 617 Diesel engine. I made it back from Alaska to PA with a non operating alternator. I had a battery charger with me so I just charged the battery every night to get the engine started in the morning. The engine never missed a beat for 6000+ miles.

At the time I didn't know how easy it is to change the alternator brushes which is what the problem was. Now I carry spare set with me. BTW, the brushes I put in the alternator more than 10 years and 100,000+ miles are still functioning but its probably about time for new ones.

P E H

joshhol · #8 09-04-2003, 11:58 AM

These problems with the new MB diesels will be very unfortunate for the company if they are true. A lot of taxi's are new MB diesels so they're reputations will be well known. In Finland I know firsthand that many cabs are MB's. Perhaps those are the base model engines that are in fact reliable so hopefully MB won't alienate that customer base. Whatever they are, they're not that slow.
It saddens me to keep hearing these stories about Mercedes these days. Rudolf Ulenhaut would not approve.

On the bright side, I found a brand new 615, 616, 617.91 factory engine manual that I bought.

autozen · #9 09-04-2003, 12:06 PM

Everone better hang onto the OM616s and Om617s then, because we haven't seen anything yet. Since fuel cells are too costly, the engine developers are turning to diesel to meet fuel efficiency and emissions requirements. The new engines are going to have jacked up fuel pressure to I believe 2000 bar, and piezo crystal controlled injection with each injector injected 6 to 8 times per compression stroke. And oh yes, did I mention ELECTRONIC controls?

Dslbnz,

I don't think it works that way. I'm sure the warranty only runs once. Sorry.

Peter

michakaveli · #10 09-04-2003, 12:14 PM

My 606 seems tp be doing just fine

Hawk180 · #11 09-04-2003, 01:42 PM

My old 617 in a 115 body is still chugging righ along. I drive it to work every day until I can convince the wife to get rid of her dead caddy and pick up a 123. (Pre-Computer of course). It never fails to start and gets me 30 mpg at 65-70 per.

Scott98 · #12 09-04-2003, 02:41 PM

My 210 has 232,000 miles on it and runs like new. Can't be that bad of a car either.

The new CDI only lasting 20k? Give me a break.

DieselAddict · #13 09-04-2003, 02:51 PM

Is it possible that this guy is bitter because he can't afford the new MB diesels but he wants one of them bad so he decided to talk trash about them? Of course I don't know this guy, but I do know people who act this way.

coachgeo · #14 09-04-2003, 03:06 PM

The guy is an engineer and owns a major aftermarket offroad company with his father who is still in Germany. Son is in Colorado. They sell used Military Mercedes axles and other items of their own design in the US and Europe to hardcore offroaders. Dad is an engineer too.

Doesnt mean they have money to buy MB's but it does mean they understand the in and outs of MB etc. enginering better than most.

#15 09-04-2003, 03:13 PM

For all that hoopla degrading MB diesels, I have yet to see a Sprinter on the side of the road, and around here. both UPS and FEDEX are using them. I typically see at least a dozen of these vans daily on the highways. If the new MB diesels were truly that bad, these vans should be all over the breakdown lanes.

As for the electronics, that's the price that we're all going to have to pay for progress. Emissions laws will only be getting tighter, and to make these engines meet them, they will have to look at even higher operating pressures than even what's out there today. The finer the mist of the injected fuel, the cleaner the burn. The only way to do this, and have them be quiet as well, is to have pilot injection, and operate with these monstorous pressures. Class 8 truck engines were already beginning to go electronic 10 years ago when I got into trucking. 5 years later, when I left that industry, unless you bought an older truck, you had electronics. It will mean more complex engines with more opportunity for something to fail. Head stresses SHOULD be going down however, as the DI engines normally have sub 20:1 compression ratios to help reduce NOx emissions at the source.