How would well would a W123 or W126 survive a side impact? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lietuviai · #1 05-12-2004, 10:08 PM

With all the talk about the new side impact standards and about the govt requiring side air bags, I was wondering how our W123's and W126's would survive a side impact, better yet how would we, the drivers and passengers survive. I've been looking for another W123 or W126 for my wife but now I have my reservations because of all the SUV's out there and I would prefer her to keep driving her SUV for sake of her safety. I know the W123's and W126's have safety cage construction and do remarkably well in frontal and rear accidents but I've never heard anything about side impacts. Has anyone out there heard anything?

MonsieurBon · #2 05-12-2004, 10:26 PM

I remember seeing in some recent BMW safety literature that they recently redesigned their doors so that in a side impact, the door's deformation cause it to lock in to the A pillar and B pillar, so that the whole car deforms, rather than the door popping in on you.

From the way my '84 300D's door-latch mechanism appears, it already has this feature.

Anyone have any real-world experience on this one?

rwthomas1 · #3 05-12-2004, 10:43 PM

Oh boy, a pet peeve of mine here.... I would take an MB, or rather any european car that is designed with autobahn use in mind over anything else, SUV or otherwise. Not only are the vehicles better made with impact protection designed in from all directions not just front and rear, they generally handle much better in emergency situations. Yes, obviously the law of gross tonnage is that a 8000lb Expedition will likely win out in a crash with a 4000lb MB but that doesn't make the SUV safer. Higher center of gravity, poor braking performance, poor handling all the time leads to more of a chance of HAVING an accident to start with. Airbags are great, they will save you facial lacerations and bruises if you want to look good in your open casket at the wake. IMHO I will take the chance of minor cuts and bruises and drive a car that will save my life. Anyone know why they keep making vehicles safer and safer? How about we do away with the cellphones, GPS nav systems, dash mounted TV's, etc. and start teaching people how to friggin' DRIVE!!! I would be in full approval of a US driver training system modeled after the German one. Rant off, RT

compress ignite · #4 05-13-2004, 12:10 AM

R.W T. ,

'How about we treat D.L.'s like the F.A.A. treats pilot licenses!

(That would eliminate about 78% of the idiots on the road)

[But, then the insurance companies would suffer an income
loss : Fewer homicidal fools behind the wheel(s) = loss .]

Side benefit to the few of us who practice defensive driving;
less chance of being interred in our Mercedes.

Dusty-NZ · #5 05-13-2004, 12:11 AM

I saw a MB promo video a few years ago that was showing the crash test development of the W123 , it was very impressive when they tossed a 5 ton truck at the side of the car at 30mph .

W123 and W126 are my choice for safety for my family.

wolf_walker · #6 05-13-2004, 12:17 AM

Mine took a hell of a whallop in the drivers side door post early in it's life, sometime in the mid-late 80's. Not many other unibody cars could have been repaired after being hit as bad as it seems to have been. That says a lot when you look at the details in person.

As far as an SUV hit, it's been covered. If the hitter's bumper is low, your ok, if it's at face level you have a problem, same in any car. No airbag is going to stop a bumber crashing through your window.

lietuviai · #7 05-13-2004, 12:24 AM

My wife received excellent driver training but its the other driver that I'm concerned about. My wife and I don't even own a cell phone. My wife's Tahoe has ABS brakes and is equipped with a police suspension package that makes her SUV handle nearly as well as a large sports sedan. Yes it does have a higher center of gravity but I have taken the same curves at the same speeds I am able to with my 300D. The Tahoe even seems to handle better at times than my 300D. One thing is for sure the Tahoe brakes far more controllably than my 300D. I had some idiot pull out in front of me while I was driving the 300D last year. I had to hit the brakes so hard that the car locked up so bad and went all over the place that I almost landed into a drainage ditch. If I end up in another situation like that one with the 300D, I am just going to plow into whoever pulls out in front of me instead of ending up as a solo wreck.
I had to make a sudden stop with the Tahoe in another occasion and it stopped very predictably in a straight line with no lock-up due to its oversized brakes and the help of the ABS system.
I can understand why this subject can be a pet peeve to you RT, but my wife's safety is far more important that my own.

240Demon · #8 05-13-2004, 12:30 AM

I saw a 240D at the junkyard with some major side intrusion, like it was pushed in a foot on the pass. side. However, the seats were intact and it looks as if the occupants would have walked away from the accident.

wolf_walker · #9 05-13-2004, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lietuviai
My wife received excellent driver training but its the other driver that I'm concerned about. My wife and I don't even own a cell phone. My wife's Tahoe has ABS brakes and is equipped with a police suspension package that makes her SUV handle nearly as well as a large sports sedan. Yes it does have a higher center of gravity but I have taken the same curves at the same speeds I am able to with my 300D. The Tahoe even seems to handle better at times than my 300D. One thing is for sure the Tahoe brakes far more controllably than my 300D. I had some idiot pull out in front of me while I was driving the 300D last year. I had to hit the brakes so hard that the car locked up so bad and went all over the place that I almost landed into a drainage ditch. If I end up in another situation like that one with the 300D, I am just going to plow into whoever pulls out in front of me instead of ending up as a solo wreck.
I had to make a sudden stop with the Tahoe in another occasion and it stopped very predictably in a straight line with no lock-up due to its oversized brakes and the help of the ABS system.
I can understand why this subject can be a pet peeve to you RT, but my wife's safety is far more important that my own.

Wonder how the 126's with ABS are in a panic situation?

Hatterasguy · #10 05-13-2004, 12:51 PM

I have done a panic stop with my SDL, just to see what it would do. All I can say is wow! The ABS is great better than my moms Olds, it stopped straight and my god those brakes bite! I think 60-0 is 165ft. Not bad for a 17 year old sedan. I have new pads, rotors, lines, and brake fluid. ATE discs and Textar pads seem to be a good combo, with ATE power discs in the front.

Tymbrymi · #11 05-13-2004, 01:04 PM

lietuviai, although there may be a problem with your 300d's brakes... it should be possible to do a controlled panic stop... i *strongly* suggest finding an infrequently travelled road and practicing panic stops. As you've discovered non-abs brakes can be quite squirrley unless you do it *just* right. I know that untill I practiced alot at an autocrossing school my panic stop skills made me fly all over the place!

Best of luck,
John
'79 300SD (2)

#12 05-13-2004, 01:18 PM

A stupid driver backed into the side of my 126 2 weeks ago. WHile it was at slow speeds in a parking lot, it was terrifying to have the rear of someones car coming directly at my face in slow motion. However, when the connection happened, it seemed as if the whole car took the energetic impact and spread it around. I mean, it was a solid car! All I can say is that I'm very glad I was in the MB and not my old Mazda 323 which probably would have crumpled. My driver's side mirror made a good, sharp dent in her trunk too! Now I'm having to deal with getting the dent removed, but it didn't make any sharp creases so...

dmorrison · #13 05-13-2004, 01:43 PM

lietuviai

Please let me do a little educating here. Forgive me if you already have knowledge of this, but by your post I am not convinced.
As an airline pilot we deal with high speed aborts with and without ABS (without shown as an emergency training situation)
these are the philosophies on braking with and without ABS.

Without ABS. You apply brake pedal pressure untill you get about a 20% tire skid situation. How do you know what this is?? Go out and practice. Apply the maximum brake pedal pressure until the tires start to lockup and then YOU must be the ABS sytem and release the brake pedal pressure to ensure that tires do not lock up When they lock up they start to ride on melting rubber that is under the tire. This melting rubber is very slippery and causes the braking to deteriate. So go out and practice your panic stops in the NON ABS car.

With ABS. Remember to slam the brake pedal to the floor as hard as you can, then expect to feel pulsing in the pedal as the ABS does its job. Maintain the pedal pressure and steer away from the collision. Many people want to slam on the pedal and have the car stop. The most worthwhile benifit of ABS is the ability to steer and maintain control of the car while getting maximum braking. We practice this in our High Speed aborts in the aircraft. Apply maximum pedal pressure until you have competely stopped.

So
NON ABS -- brake and you regulate the skidding of the wheels. If skidding you will loose steering and possible control of the car. So don't allow the tires to lock up.

ABS-- Stomp on the brake pedal ( expect pulsing in the pedal) and STEER away from the accident.

Sorry if I am lecturing but Driver training in the US is terrible when it comes to ABS vs. NON ABS technique and proceedure. Since the majority of drivers are taught by there parents your getting old information when you are taught and there are a lot of new systems that have come out in the last 10 years or so.
When teaching my kids to drive, I taught them that there are some real idiots out there driving. If you don't believe that, then just watch "Jerry Springer" once. Those people drive cars and are teaching their kids how to drive.

Dave

Veloce300DT · #14 05-13-2004, 02:03 PM

I have a 1984 300DT. In Novemeber my neighbor backed into me at about 20mph!!!

I know its nothing close to that of a 35+mph side impact, but the car did very well.

No frame damage. Both driver side front and rear doors need to be replaced, and the rocker panel needs to be pulled out very slightly. Both doors open, although the rear door is slightly jammed.

There is a picture of the damage on my homepage link. Go to my profile and click on the link if you would like to see what the damage looks like.

cheers!

123 300D driver · #15 05-13-2004, 02:41 PM

lietuviai,

There is an excellent book that talks about this called "High and Mighty: SUVs : the world's most dangerous vehicles and how they got that way" by Keith Bradsher. Bradsher talks about how vehicles react in side impact collisions and why cars don't do so well against non-cars. Bradsher says that as long a the bumper of one vehicle matches up with the lowest part of the door on the other vehicle, the side energy is tranfered into the floor and that provides the safety. This works well between most cars because the bumber height is about the same as the floor height at the side. Trucks and SUVs don't need to follow the same bumper height restrictions that cars do, so thats where the problem lies. I think they can be as high as 54" but I'm not sure.

So SUVs and truck bumper heights are not required to match car bumber heights or floor heights. They can also intall battering rams like bull bars and winches on the front. So no matter what kind of side impact designs that one can dream up for cars, they aren't going to work properly against something like SUVs or trucks.

SUVs and trucks aren't regulated like cars are for emissions, fuel economy, safety, etc. To improve side impact safety, we need to standardise the bumper heights first, then dream up newer and better designs. Or ditch our cars and buy SUVs or trucks so that our floor height is the same as the next guys bumper.