Guys and gals: I really miss my old 5-speed 300E. Now I'm looking for a stick (and some more oomph!). Considering late '80's 911 3.2 Carreras and turbos. Seen some for around $25K. My guess is that, all things being equal, the turbo is probably a more valuable car, so that if I find one for around $25K, it's not going to be as clean as a standard 911 at same price. Any thoughts? What about late 70's turbos? Just looking for quickness and great handling on country roads on weekends. TIA, Mitch

I went to grade school with a guy whose father had a 1977 911 Turbo. Those cars where notorious for having lift throttle oversteer that was as quick as the snap of a crocodile's tail!!!! Those cars are wickedly fast, even today. I remember getting a ride home when I was in first grade (1986) and that car literally MOVED me back in my seat (the back seat in those cars mimics a baby's highchair you see at Macdonald's)
Gorgeous car though..... I'll never forget my ride
Going through the gears in a 911 (993 forget that sellout 996 boxster brother) especially a turbo could honestly bring tears of joy. A man 4 houses up from my family's has a Viper GTS and when he drove it buy me and saw me gawking like a six year old, he gave it and went through 2 gears. I literally cried, shedding tears in sheer joy!!!!!!! The shot of adrenaline I got from being steps away from that car when Mr. Baddersby tromped it is something I simply cannot describe. If you've got the financing and the mechanical nohow, go and treat yourself to the 911. I pray to God I someday too will be able to drive a legend.
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PURCHASE!!!!!!!!!
MIKE MCKINNEY

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1989 300CE - 269,000 km
1994 SL600 - 59,000 km

Mitch,
Have had my share of Porsches in the past, from a 356 Carrera 2 to a slant-nose turbo. For the money you want to spend try to not go under a 87 911 Carrera as they were the first with the G50 gearbox. The turbo used them starting in 89, first five speed, below that were all four speed. A stock turbo has so much turbo lag that it's uncomfortable to drive around town, dangerous pulling out into traffic!
Great car on the open road but expensive for maintenance as the 'turbo' clicks on the cash register at shops. There isn't much access to the motor in it until you pull the intercooler which should have dzus fasteners on.

Yes they do handle quite differently but if you run a few autocrosses or time trials you will get the feel. I've won at the Porsche Parade and drove a 2.5L 911 in IMSA back in the good ole days, fun car. With 1975 lbs and 275 horses it would do 168 at Daytona, at night too!

The G50 gearbox has much better synchros than the old 915 box and they will last longer as well as shift smoother. If you look at an early Carrera 2 (90-91) watch out for cylinder sealing on the case. There was a problem that is expensive to repair and many were done under warranty and some had to EAT it. It involves a motor teardown and new piston/cylinder assemblies$$$

As with any expensive car, best to get an opinion by an experienced shop and the car's paper trail. Worth it to pay a little up front than a bunch later. Maybe a seller would split the cost of an inspection as if you don't purchase the car he would have a copy to show later on.

Good luck,
Tobias MB
4 MBs, one a 190/5.6!

I was a little concerned about the 4-speed on the pre-89 turbos. Do I understand correctly: the pre-87 non-turbos were 5-speeds, but not G50 gearbox???

Don't overlook a 968 6 speed. If I recall properly, they have a naturally aspirated 236hp 3.0L 4 that makes good torque... in a light chassis this makes for some fun without that nasty "lift-throttle tail-lights first into the weeds tactic".

I think these cars are much more livable than 911s. The 968 is also a real value, as lots of the 911 heads don't treat 'em like real Porches, but they go quite well. (Indeed, what's wrong with a little more balanced front engine, rear transaxle, water cooled action -- sounds logical to me.)

Very clean convertibles should be available in your price range.

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GParker
'99 E430 - Smoke 'n Parch

Mitch,
Have you considered a 928? I think if you want speed and a damn good ride the 928 is perfect. I know the early ones had that ugly rear but in '87 Porsche face lifted the 928 which eliminated that problem. During its entire life span the 928 has been considered one of the best GT cars in the world if not the best. And if it's performance you want the 928 delivers. The '87 928S 4 has a 5 liter V-8 that makes a "adequate" 316 Bhp, 317 lb-ft of torque, and does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. At 60 mph in 5th the engine is working at 1850 rpm. With a top speed of 165 mph not even shiny new E55's or M5's can touch the 928S 4. Back in 1984 Road & Track did a world's fastest car comparison with Euro model in Germany and the 928S actually outdid the 911 Turbo with a top speed of 162.2 mph. And a 928 is a much easier car to live with then a 1980's 911 Turbo with quirky handling and "calm before the storm" turbo lag.

Mitch,
You are correct: the first G50 tranny was in the 87 911 and in the turbo in 89. All turbos prior to 89 had four speeds
and with such low compression for the turbo it was a dog unless you kicked it to 3500-4000 to get a good jump. It's a touchy balance of staying out of the boost and bogging on initial starts. I found a good 5 speed 911 more joy to drive overall.

The 928S-GT didn't even cross my mind...a good driver and well balanced with power. Prices are eaten by the first owner so you could find a late one in the $25k range. Still have it looked at closely though.

Tobias MB
4 MBs

I am in the process of purchasing a 500E. I may be selling my 1974 911S Targa Turbo. Orange, Carrera updates, plus 3 liter crankfired 930 motor, full HPC coated euro twin outlet exhaust, 5 speed, polished 7&8'x 16's. email if interested. dwight.hinton@fmglobal.com

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dwight

my vote for $25k would be an '87-89 911 Carrera, with as low miles and as much original equipment, services records, etc. as possible.
A terrific car!

John,

I must say there is an enormous amount of truth to what you say. I have had my 911 for 19 years and have spent my fair share of time either under... or watching others under...it. It has been dismantled, repainted, and reassembled twice during its life with me. Parts are ridiculous, the motor while easy to remove, seems to come out far to often, and despite what has become a symbiotic relationship with the orange beast, I find myself looking at the turbo & then driving the 500E. Overall I sense the 500E may actually be the quicker car start to finish and far more user friendly. The 500E is a truly amazing automobile and already I may actually like it better, but for the few moments, under full boost, with the tires breaking loose, the quirky "understeer...ops now oversteer", and the tail end dancing while you grit your teeth to catch it, I find it hard to say, "this really isn't much fun!". However, when the turbo is on a roll back going to the shop, I quickly remember, why I like the 500E better. My heart will always belong to "The Toy", my intelligence has to concede to the Benz.

300D Turbo 265,000 miles "Bennie" (sold)
300E 145,000 miles "Maggie"
74' 911S/Carerra Targa 3.0 Crankfired Turbo "The Toy"
380SE 158,000 miles "The Battlestar"
92' 500E (My daughter has not yet named this one)

She also footnotes: while the obnoxious orange, top down ride, is "cool" in the summer, the heated seats in the 500E "rule" in the winter.
As they say...
To each "their" own.

Crash

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dwight