Do the junkyards seem to have any idea of how much these things cost new?

So, a points system is alternating current???? How?

The way I see it, the ignition coil is a transformer. If you are putting more current and voltage in, your going to get more current and voltage out. Thus a hotter/bigger spark. Most of the stock ignition modules I know of feed 12 volts to the coil and don't use capacitive discharge.


I never said it was, I was just using it as an analogy. A dual plug setup is far more optimal.


That's not what many top drag racing teams think. While any power increases ARE small, it's still there and every little bit counts. If it makes you feel any better I don't plan on using MSD on my M103 project. I do exclusively use MSD in drag racing though.

__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

Not really, every time they would ask, I would say it's an air flow meter and they would charge me 10 buck.

__________________
With best regards

Al

A transformer ONLY works on AC. There is no other option. In this case, it originates with the LC circuit made by the primary coil and the capacitor (condensor).

More in does mean more out, but once you have ignited the mixture, additional current does absolutely nothing. It will not increase the speed of the burn at all.

Top drag racers don't run stock engines. In fact, they're so far from stock that a standard ignition circuit can't ignite the mix at all. They would have serious misfiring, which just won't do. If your engine isn't missing, you will gain absolutely nothing.

That's pretty funny. If they held out for a few hundred dollars, they would probably eventually find a buyer for any they had.

No it doesn't.

Just because the circuit produces a sign wave due to the capacitor smoothing out the signal doesn't mean it's alternating current. AC means that the electrons flow in the opposite direction at the bottom side of the wave. This ignition circuit never drops below 0 volts.

Nope. When you output more current/voltage to the plug you effectively create a larger/hotter spark. Doing so creates a larger radius of hot plasma at the plug which will ignite the mixture faster. You can also gap the plugs wider with more voltage thus creating more plasma axially as well.


True. Some racing engines won't run at all without a very hot spark. In fact, way hotter than what an AL7 box produces. Let's stick to the sportsman class to be fair. They benefit from a hotter spark and most of them will also run fine with a stock ignition setup.


Sorry, this has been proven already.

__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

I'll pick on this one, because it's incorrect, and I'll concede that you can get a slightly faster ignition with more input to the plug. I haven't measured the difference on these engines.

But the purpose of the condenser is not to "smooth out" the current. The inductance of the coil primary and the capacitance of the condenser causes the circuit to ring once the points open. Current flows both ways through the primary. It's visible on a scope.

It's not incorrect. I know what an LC circuit is (I build tesla coils too.) That is not what the condenser does in a points ignition system. Like I said, it smooths out the signal so the points don't foul and you get less RF noise.

I found this explanation in about 30 seconds. I'm sure there are other sources as well:

Primary current produces a magnetic field around the coil windings. This does not occur instantly, because it takes time for the current and the magnetic field to reach maximum value. The time element is determined by the resistance of the coil winding or the length of time the distributor contacts are closed. The current does not reach the maximum because the contacts remain closed for such a short time, and more so at higher engine speeds. When the breaker points begin to open, the primary current will continue to flow. This condition in a winding is increased by means of the iron core. Without an ignition condenser, the induced voltage causing this flow of current would create an arc across the contact points and the magnetic energy would be consumed in this arc. As a result, the contact points would be burned and ignition would not occur. The "condenser" prevents the arc by making a place for the current to flow. As a result of condenser action, the magnetic field produced and continued by the current flow will quickly collapse. It is the rapid cutting out of magnetic field that induces high voltage in the secondary windings. So, if the condenser should go bad, the high voltage needed to jump the gap at the spark plugs will not be possible. This could cause a no-start condition or a driving problem.

Here's where I found it.
http://www.mattsauto.com/i.htm#condenser

__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

But you can see the ringing on a scope. I wonder then, if this isn't necessary at all, but a byproduct of the proper collapse of the magnetic field. From what you're saying, it is.

Yep, You got it.

__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

Matt,no offense,but step out of the pure electronic realm of this.
The electronics in this have no "self purpose" what so ever,but is there to perform a task.

1/To this day we donīt know how the flame kernel is started.
Read that again.Not even professors on the subject knows.
We indeed for instance know that an ionizing can be sensed before the spark strikes home,but we have NO concept of HOW this starts the kernel.

2/Due to this ALL motors,even the ones running as they should,have approx 2-3% misfires.
This clearly brings that anything that can be done to remedy misfires in any way is a good thing.

3/The reasoning with ign coils is right to a point.The problem is the reluctance of the coil,which at a certain point will just transform any further amount of energy put into into heat.
That CDI ign system wouldnīt put more available energy at the plug is a misconception on your behalf.Please investigate the workings of a CDI,and no...CDI is NOT only MSD stuff...in fact the OEM merc is as well for instance(EZL)

4/The intensity of the spark will not affect the burn rate of the combustion in any appreciable way.See above.
Mercedes actually spent a friggin fortune filming the combustion process(amongst others),and if you search for those pictures i can promise that youīll be stomped of how the flame spreads witin what seems a concentrical combustion space.Whatīs more..it sure brings a LOT of respect for the work spent to make the comb chamber repeatable.

To bring a kettering setup into the discussion...yeah well.
Thing is.Laws of nature will dictate the amount of ENERGY released to make the spark jum every time.The "restriction" of most transistorized stock ign systems is the tyristor.These will more often than not limit the amount of current to approx 3amps when under full load on a well working system.
A kettering will cope approx 0,5.
A regular MSD6 will induce around 16,but the point STILL is that the prevalent conditions will determin how much of it is needed,and there indeed are strong voices claiming that you canīt very well do more than start the kernel.Ie-whatīs the point of the X-kJ as they might very well not be needed.
That a raised amount of energy however IS needed as Bmep goes up IS a fact.If not...misfire.

Thereīs a lot more to be said on the subject,but this is at least some basics.

btw.
Running 2 plugs per hole is if anything a band aid solution to a very declicat problem.
Combustion chamber tech is..out of the enthusiats realms to be honest.
Anyways.
The 2 plug per hole idea IS a band aid for a sub par ign system and combustion chamber tech.

That's for the info, Racing. I'm not sure that two plugs aren't well suited to a different shape combustion chamber, but certainly you can make a lot of power with one.

Hopefully to un-hijack this thread (sorry about that), is the intention here to connect the megasquirt to the D-jet injectors? Or is it feasible to replace the old injectors with something else, preferably with a higher flow rate?

Contact Silvercosworth on the 190Rev Forum. He can probably supply everything you need for the conversion including injector adopter bungs and a distributorless EDIS ignition system. He has done Porches, Ferraris,and a pile of Mercs.

bobf.

I am going to use the d-jet injectors, there really isn't any reason not to. As far as the mega squirt goes I think I am about 80% there, I just need to assemble everything. Right now I started another mess and pulled all of the wires from the car and spread them around my room. . . hey, how else do you expect to learn auto wiring? oh well I am sure everything will work again. . . maybe