W124 spring pad height differences? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 05-12-2003, 12:14 PM

Hi all,

If someone could respond to my email address on this, I would appreciate it.

I am at a shop and am having a set of Eibach springs and Bilstein shocks/struts installed in my 95 E300D. I am a track instructor on the west coast and am doing this for improved handling and do not want to the car to have its ride height set so low that it looks "dumped". The factory spring pads are 2 bump f/r and I have a set of 4 bump f/r pads which I ordered for this swap. The shop owner, however, is advising me to stay with the 2 bump pads. The Eibach springs are supposed to lower the car 1.3" and he tells me that, in his experience, it should be about right.

My question is, all things being equal, how much ride height difference is there between the different spring pads. Or, more specifically, how much between a 2 bump and 4 bump pads.

Again, I'm in need of the info pretty quickly, so if you can respond to my email address at vjlupo@netzero.net , I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Vincent

ksing44 · #2 05-13-2003, 03:41 AM

As Forest Gump would say, it is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get when you drop your car with Eibach springs.

I started with 3-bump pads all around when stock and then switched everything to 1-bump pads when I had the Eibach Pro-Kit springs and Bilstein HD shocks installed. I then switched back to 3-bump pads in the rear because the rear dropped a lot more than the front on my 1995 E320 SE. I also added the K-MAC bushings when I increased the rear spring pads because my camber was almost -3 after dropping the car and it could not be adjusted without the new K-MAC bushings. The camber is now adjustable to within specifications. My mechanic used the alignment specification defined for a sport suspension.

With 1-bump pads in front and 3-bump pads in the rear, my car is about 1 inch lower all the way around, but I do have some differences from side to side. The driver side is exactly the same gap front and rear, but on the passenger side the front is about 0.25 inches lower which makes the back look a bit too high. I am not sure how my own bodyweight affects the ride height and gaps. Maybe when I am in the car, the driver and passenger sides are the same. I am thinking about switching the rear pads one more time to 2-bump in the rear but I don’t like the car to look like it is hauling heavy weight in the trunk. To me, if it is too low in the rear it looks like your car is old with a broken down suspension. I am constantly looking at the car, measuring, and wondering if I should try 2-bump pads in the rear. I am getting a little crazy I guess.

Each bump is 5 mm in pad thickness, but the geometry of the suspension translates the 5mm to about a 7mm or 8mm change at the gap between the fender and wheel.

#3 05-13-2003, 11:26 AM

Ken,

Thanks for the input and thanks to the others who responded. I left the 2-bump pads in F/R and the car is indeed a bit lower in the rear than in the front, with 1/2 tank of fuel. This was not the case with the stock springs. I, like you, do not like the look of the car with the rear lower than the front and it IS irritating. I will probably either go to 1-bump pads in the front or 3 bump in the rear. In fairness to Eibach, the H&Rs did the same thing on my friend's 300E. I'll wait until the suspension bushings have a chance to settle in before changing the pads. The suspension bushings take a set where they have been riding and will settle pretty quickly to where the new springs are.

One thing I did notice that may go to your uneven left to right drop, the original spring pads were very compressed where the spring had been riding on them since 1995. If the new springs didn't drop into the compressed area, it may impact the ride height with the new springs.

The Eibachs with Bilstein Sports feel perfectly matched in terms of spring rate and damping. When my neck surgery heals I'll put some sway bars in and some more rubber on. I may go down to Bilstein and have them put rebound springs in the front struts, like the original 500E struts, but the springs and shocks feel great right now. I've driven an Eibach test car at the track with and without rebound springs and the difference was amazing. Body roll was dramatically reduced but with no impact on understeer and without the negative effects of large sway bars that we are accustomed to dealing with. The only issue is that once you have rebound springs setup you can never lower the ride height from that which the rebound springs were setup for, or they stop working. If you lower the 500E they are no longer in the picture and no longer work.

Thanks again,

Vincent

ksing44 · #4 05-13-2003, 11:44 AM

I used all new spring pads, so depressions in the old spring pads could not be the reason for my right to left differences.

I read that the exaggerated rear drop is common for many of the aftermarket springs. It really is trial and error to get it the way you want it. It isn’t unique to Eibach and I really do like the way my car handles with the Eibach ProKit springs. Now my car really is a “sport sedan”.

BTW, how is the rear camber on your car now that it is dropped. I read that everyone doesn't get as much negative camber as I experienced. Is your camber more than -2 or even close to -3 after the drop? How much lower is your car with 2-bump pads all the way around?

Another question too. What are some of the negative effects of having large swaybars that you are accustomed to dealing with?

#5 11-07-2003, 03:49 PM

Can someone kindly explain what all this means? I too have a 300E with a tail that is lower than the front and that drives me crazy. I would like it to look like some of the other lower mileage 300E's I see driving around, which is lower in the front and slightly higher in the rear. It seems like the tires are about 3 to 4 inches from the the wheel fender in the front and I've seen many cars with only 2 inches or so of space between the fender and wheel. Any suggestions on how I can fix this inexpensively? It looks as if the rear struts/shocks are newer Bilsteins. Thanks!

ksing44 · #6 11-08-2003, 04:52 AM

At the top, the springs sit in a metal cup that holds a rubber pad. For the W124, the pads are 8mm, 13mm, 18mm, and 23mm in thickness. I have read that the 5mm change in thickness of the pad causes a change of about 7mm at the gap between the fender and tire. I also read that Mercedes used different pad combinations to adjust the ride height for different options or other requirements like bumper heights. You can identify what pads you have by looking under the car and counting the bumps on the lip of the pads. 1-bump is the thinnest at 8mm and 4-bump is thickest at 23mm. The bumps are very small little bumps on the very end of the lip of the pads. They are relatively easy to see if the bumps happen to be facing toward you when you get under the car. If the bumps are rotated toward the body, it may be harder to see and count them. My car came with 3-bump all around when stock. I changed to 1-bump all around when I added the lowering springs, but then the back was too low so I went to 3-bump in the rear and kept 1-bump in the front. You can buy new pads at the dealer for just a few dollars each. The only problem is getting to the top of the springs, so that you can replace the old pads. It may be best to pay a mechanic that knows about using a spring compressor to remove the springs and the car may have to be re-aligned after you change the thickness of the pads. Ride height affects the camber.

I have noticed that different years can vary considerably in terms of the gap between the fender and the tires. I have also noticed that when I load up the trunk of my car, the rear drops and the front rises. I suppose that if your rear is kind of sagging, it would raise the front of the car. In general, I think the W124s had an aerodynamic uplifted rear end, so maybe your springs are sagging. I suppose it is even possible that a previous owner removed the pads or forgot to put them in when they worked on the suspension. I know it sounds crazy, but I have read messages by others that found they had no pads at all.

#7 11-09-2003, 12:27 PM

This makes it all the more clear. The ride is surpringly just fine. It just seems that the front fender over the tire is just a little too high compared to other Mercedes' 300E's when it's parked. I've seen numerous photos of other cars on Ebay for example that are the same age but are definitely a little more sloped forward and down when parked. The rear seems to be fine on mine. It's just the front that's too high. I'll check for the pads today to see what height they are. Thanks again for the post!

#8 11-19-2003, 05:12 PM

Ok, I've heard that ride height issues seem to be of concern more for the cars build post 1990 because of the slight differences in the body cladding and suspension components of the newer models. I have noticed that I've always liked the angle of the 1986-89 models, which seem to be more raked forward and have higher clearances on the rear wheelwells over the wheels and lower clearance on the front than the 1990 models onward. Can someone who owns one of the '86-89' models tell me what the exact height is from the center of the wheel star to the very bottom of the wheelwell? I have stock 16 inch wheels 206/65?/16 I believe. Thanks.

gsxr · #9 11-19-2003, 06:09 PM

Ride height will vary greatly from car to car as parts wear differently. On my cars, with rebuilt suspension and lowering springs, I like to run around 13.75-14.0 inches from center of the wheel to the bottom of the fender lip. Tire size is irrelevant unless you're measuring off the pavement, which is a no-no. Stock height is more like 15.0 front, 15.5 rear. Also, the rear will change about 0.5 inch between full tank of fuel and empty tank. I set my cars up so it's level (13.75 front and rear) with a full tank of fuel, and the back end lifts to about 14.25 when it's near empty. That allows for some leeway to carry passengers, luggage, etc...

Click the "www" button at the bottom of my post for photos of my two 1987 W124's in various states of lowering, etc.

fastpakr · #10 08-18-2006, 11:16 AM

Are these pads available from Fastlane? I haven't been able to find them so far, but I may just not be looking in the right section. My '87 is now significantly higher in the front than the rear after a strut change (which seems odd, since I don't think of struts having any significant effect on ride height). I'll try to measure the exact height from the wheel in a few minutes.

gsxr · #11 08-18-2006, 12:19 PM

The struts and shocks are gas pressurized, so if your old ones were really shot (zero pressure), it's possible that new ones may have raised the ride height slightly. It may settle down over a few weeks or months. Anyway, about the pads/shims, try searching directly by part number:

============================================
Spring pads / shims
============================================
201-321-09-44 - Front, 1-point (8mm)
201-321-10-44 - Front, 2-point (13mm)
201-321-11-44 - Front, 3-point (18mm)
201-321-12-44 - Front, 4-point (23mm)

201-325-09-44 - Rear, 1-point (8mm)
201-325-10-44 - Rear, 2-point (13mm)
201-325-11-44 - Rear, 3-point (18mm)

fastpakr · #12 08-18-2006, 01:57 PM

Thanks. Like I said, I'll get some measurements but this isn't what I'd normally consider a 'slight' difference - I'm guessing it will be on the order of a two inch difference front to rear. The struts were replaced as a set due to a freak control arm failure that destroyed the passenger side strut. Thanks again for the part numbers, that helps considerably.

gsxr · #13 08-18-2006, 03:34 PM

Wow - yeah, that's a lot. In general, my 1987 stock ride height was about 15.5 inches from the center of the wheel to the bottom of the fender lip, front and rear, with a full tank of fuel. With an empty tank, the rear is about a half-inch higher. Measure front & rear (take average of left+right) and see just how far off it is.

Remember, to change the pads/shims you have to pull the springs, which requires a Mercedes-specific coil spring compressor - it's not a DIY job without the compressor.