Original versus Restored condition? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bowbyeal · #1 01-30-2004, 08:19 PM

I have owned a 1984 380SL for about a year (50,000 miles and totally original) and I have had great summer driving times in this machine.

I have always favoured original condition cars over restored versions. However when following the recent Barrett-Jackson auctions on the Speed Channel it seemed to me that the restored cars were attracting the most attention.

I am very interested to know where members of this forum stand on this question. Which would you prefer?

kip Foss · #2 01-31-2004, 01:26 PM

I doubt that you will ever get your money back if you have to pay to do a restoration. If you can donate your labor you might come out a head but overall, if your labor is worth anything to you, you won't make money. Go to www.collectorcartraderonline.com and read what people have put into sls and what they are selling for. I track slcs and there are often ones with new engines, new trans. new wheels, tires, seat covers, etc., that can be had for a song. There was an slc last year with both a new engine and trans. for about $3500. That hardly covers the cost of the trans. if it was done by a dealer. The sl is not a rare enough car that you will ever get your maney back if you do a major restoration. Now a Dusenberg or a Bugatti is another matter.

dmorrison · #3 01-31-2004, 01:39 PM

Having done a 65 Mustang Fastback with my son, it's his car. You don't get your money out of a restoration unless it's a rare car. SSK or Gulwing-yes SLC-no. But a lot of people do the restorations as a hobby. It doesn't pay the bills but they have pride in what they have done. Some guys are a little anal about the restorations. Just go to a cruise night at some car clubs. You would think that it was their first born, not a car. Actually some guys have more time into the car then their first born, or second etc. And they wonder why their kids are screwed up.
We have about $16,000 in his Mustang and could probably get $13,000 for it.

Restoration Vs. Original conditioin. A restoration has had everything rebuilt to OEM standards and using OEM parts. An Original condition car has, in your case, 20 year old rubber, seals, bearings, etc. etc. It old. May be in great shape but everything is old and used. A restoration everything is new and hopefully perfect. To do this cost $$$$$$$$$$.
They say to buy a car by parts cost you 2.5 to 3 times the original cost of the car. Now throw labor on that and you see why some restorations are very expensive.
A restomod. This has become popular in some classic American cars. My sons is a restomod. Holley carb. Performance intake, cam, headers, heads, rollertip rockers. A new T-5, 5 speed transmission instead of the old 3 speed. Front disk brakes, instead of the 4 wheel drum Etc, Etc.
So his car is not a restoration it's what he wants.

Where do I stand?
If its a classic. 300SL Gulwing, SSK or such then ONLY a restoration. If its an American muscle car. Do what you want.
IF you find an ORIGINAL classic, then leave it and take care of it.

Dave

bowbyeal · #4 01-31-2004, 03:03 PM

Thanks kip Foss and dmorrison.

I take your point about restoration making sense only for very rare cars. I wouldn't want a car that was so perfect that I would not want to take it for a good drive. I admit to being a little anal about my SL in that I try to avoid driving in the rain and of course it doesn't go outside in the winter.

No doubt I will be faced with some of the replacement items mentioned by Dave. Well worth it though. I'm prepared to pay to keep it in good nick as I hope to have it for many years to come. Its given me a whole new appreciation of fun in the summer.

dmorrison · #5 01-31-2004, 05:11 PM

Maintain your car the way you want. OEM parts or after market. I know how you feel about the car. I have the 560SL that I bought in 1995. The 107 body came out in 1971 when I was a senior in High School. While all the kids wanted Camaros, Mustangs, Corvette etc. I wanted a 107 SL. Well I finally was able to afford it in 1990 and I finally found a cherry one in 1995. I will keep it as long as I can. New engine, sure when the time comes. Tranny etc, etc. What ever it takes to keep it. Is it worth that kind of money in 5-10 years. Maybe not but its my toy. I have a 82 300TD that I have owned since 1990. I'm putting in a new AC system, completely. Just rebuilt the entire suspension. Am I putting in more in parts then the car is worth. Probably but My wife and I love the car. In a couple of year it will probably need a paint job. and well probably do that too.
Enjoy the journey, And don't worry about just getting to the destination.

Dave

I've owned the car since 1995 and the hard top has been on it all of 2 weeks. It's a convertible, the top should be down.

bowbyeal · #6 02-01-2004, 12:37 AM

Right on brother, I'm with you all the way. I'm not rich but I have enough money to spend what it takes to keep this baby on the road and looking good.

The pure pleasure of pointing it north and heading for open country for an afternoon of just driving for the sake of driving (my wife calls them the drives to nowhere) is what it's all about.

cbdo · #7 02-01-2004, 08:08 AM

For the sake of piling on, I'm in the same camp. The 107 probably won't ever justify a true restoration, as there are just too many around to get to the value needed to support that. Its highest and best purpose is to be well-maintained (preservation, not restoration), driven and enjoyed. I plan on getting rid of mine in a few decades, when I'm dribbling my meals down my front and they have to take away my keys.

G-Benz · #8 02-02-2004, 10:56 AM

I've done the show-car scene for over a decade with a variety of cars, and the "original" tag is over-rated. I knew of one colleague that would show his early Vette (back when I was showing ours) and scoffed at the shiny paintwork on the competitor's cars' and prided himself and keeping his faded, cracked paint because it was "original".

Well, that got the best of him one year and he changed his tune...showed up the next season with a fresh paint job...

The owners with the completely restored cars got the highest awards but silently grumbled about getting a "driver" so that they could at least enjoy driving the car to places other than on and off a flatbed trailer.

And because the laws of entropy are always in force, the value of a restored car is related to the age of the resto...you can restore a car to new specs in 1994, but today, it still has 10-year old seals, rubber, etc.

I have a resto-custom 73 VW that took top awards in 97 prior to moving to Texas. After leaving outside for one season, the deterioration was dramatic! If I want to ressurect the car back to show standards, I would have to do (and spend) nearly half of the outlay it took to do the original resto...and factor inflation, and I'm probably looking at spending probably the same...

Cars are meant to be enjoyed and driven, not placed on a pedestal and admired. And speaking of admire, Jay Leno is an avid car collector that believes in the same mantra...

Bruce B · #9 02-02-2004, 06:29 PM

My son and I have discussed how and what we are going to do to his '54 Cadillac. It is not a rare car by any means and doesn't have all the options that were available in '54. It is however a complete car with all the trim. We could spend thousands of dollars for a "showroom new" car or turn it into a "hotrod" but we've decided that in order to be able to drive it and especially enjoy it we will turn it into a mild street rod. Here's the overall plan, restore the body and interior the best we can with no modifications, ie no chopped top or shaved door handles. Upgrade the suspension and drivetrain with late model items to make it more driveable and dependable. Doing this, we feel that we will be able to take it to cruise nights and car shows without the car becoming a trailer queen.

We have had the Caddy out on the road and it turned heads where ever we went with it. Drawing a crowd when we pulled into a parking lot had many people coming up to me asking questions about it and those folks were surprised to find out that the owner was just 16 years old. It may not ever become a show winner but in my son's eyes it will be a winner just knowing that he has something unusual and he brought it back to life for others to see.

#10 02-03-2004, 04:14 PM

Hi, my first post as the new custodian of a 380. The car is not a #1 and I would not have paid for such, if it is so nice as to not be driven, it is not a car, but a work of art, lovely to look at but useless to me. What I did get is 20 years worth of maintenance records, and one cool, classy ride.

With regard to 380's not being "rare", yeah, so what. They built millions of '65-66 Mustangs, and that has not impeded price appreciation. These 107's, like old 'stangs, are CLASSICS, and evoke an emotional response that other more prosaic cars do not. Also, rignt now seems to be the part of the curve where 107's are cheap because of the relative availabilty. Trust me, as the number of well maintained survivors dwindles, value will improve. Even if I'm wrong, and they never appreciate, if I can have big fun and get even some of my money back, that sure beats golf, fishing, skiing, etc.

I watched the Jackson-Barrett auction, and was shocked by the prices paid for cars that were really mediocre, like some non-historic resto-rod for over $100k! I think that is a great forum to sell a car to crazy rich people, but I wouldn't take those prices as a barometer of true values.

BTW, this is a great site, full of fantastic information, thanks for letting me rant.

bowbyeal · #11 02-03-2004, 06:08 PM

AlanF, I entirely agree with your sentiments. I am a fellow 380 owner and it has turned into a dream come true for me.

Happy Benzing!

Wes Bender · #12 02-04-2004, 11:19 AM

Auctions only serve to inflate the apparent value of our collector cars. The real value depends upon what you can get someone to pay for your toy in a less hyped atmosphere.

Some folks like perfectly restored cars. They win concours events and hardly ever drive them. I thank them for keeping the authenticity alive, but would never join in their pursuit. I like to drive mine, while still keeping them mostly original. (Modifications that don't involve cutting or welding and are reversible are OK).

Just my $.02,

Wes

Djenka · #13 02-08-2004, 10:10 AM

Not everything is in the money (nor in gold).

How much does cost you your children, your wife, how much do you cost your self? Noone knows, actualu no one cares.

Sure, one can always live extremly economical life but pleasure only comes when you treat your self with luxuries.

If you love your Merc baby, if you do not think of selling it but rather to keep it (your) life time, it is pointless not to restore it as much as possible an as much you can afford.
My childhood dream came true and any extra buck i can spend on my '80 450 SLC (Bozhana) I'll spend witn no hasle.