We sold him the copters to do some of the gassing, provide intel to calibrate the operation, we okayed the shipment of biological cultures, sent dual use technology that turned up in weapons labs, kept his country off the list of nations sponsoring terrorism and gave him a $1B loan guarantee just before he invaded Kuwait . . . you don't consider that "close?"

Did we sell him the helocopter in order to gas people?

When you say, "dual use" you mean cultures like anthrax that can be weaponized or used to test vaccines. Are you suggesting that he weaponized Anthrax? That would be in violation of his agreement, post GW I and thus, causus belli. I don't think you meant that, did you?

What was the loan guarantee for? Is that important?

And no, I don't think this means we had a 'close relationship' with him. It meant we were using him to keep Iran under threat so they wouldn't develop and deploy nukes. It worked wonderfully and I think it was a very effective strategy.

I think we can agree that we disagree on how to interpret American-Iraqi foreign relations during the period 1980-1990.

What I learned from this is that our conclusions concerning an event depend an awful lot on the assumptions we bring with us.

the US-Irq relations were on the warming trend during the 80s i can tell you that for sure... as to what US sold to Sad we'll really never know but US did support him against Iran with armement, knowledge etc... in other words US did sleep with the enemy. the pic of rummy getting chummy with saddamy pretty much reinforces that.

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It turned out to be a test kit to test for the presence of nerve gas; left over from the Iran/Iraq War. Same old same old.

Real Sarin nerve gas is stored in a mechanical device that mixes two chemicals together to produce the gas, preferably in flight in a missile or artillery shell. It's too deadly to handle otherwise.

The reason you haven't heard about it is that the story is a dud. It is silly to think the news media would surpress the story. Fox news alone would run it for days, and the President would be on national TV, doing a dance. As usual, just more Koolaid. Drink it up, dude.

This stuff is so well known, it is silly even arguing about it. Reagan saw Iraq as a way to get at Iran, and helped him out in ways we probably don't even know about. He was one of our boys until he tried to dip into the till.

He never answers when he knows you're right and it's OK for him to call someone a Nazi because it's generally accepted in his little ring of you know what's.

He also fails to mention the poor soul's in Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan that W's predecessor blew up when ever he had a scandal brewing.

Ok bot. that may not be a direct insult but you definately are insinuating so in the above quote... "Did I insult you?" come on.... we aren't blind...

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It's a personal attack, meant to illicit one back, so the thread gets derailed. The bully-boy squad has been doing to it here for years. As the discussion progresses, if an opinion appears that they find alarming, the attacks begin. People that disagree with them have "bad judgement" or "loathe America" or "piss on soldier's graves". First one of them makes a remark like that, and then the other SS jump in to chortle their support, and then blame the person who offered the offending opinion for the bully-boys' own boorish behavior, and boo-hoo the loss of deocorum, which of course is the fault of the poster who offered the alarming opinion. Its at the heart of what derailed the entire forum before. Because people started standing up to them, they derailed the whole place. We have two choices - we can either jump in and start insulting them back - or call a spade a spade when we see it dealt and ask them to behave themselves. We already know what happens when we join them in the former, so lets try the latter. Thanks for joining me in pointing it out.

Here's what he said: How are we any better? We have killed 100,000 people, and there are graphic pictures all over the web of our butchery as well. Both the US and Saddam have engaged in the mass murder of Iraqi civilians for political purposes connected with gaining control over Iraq's oil. His mass murder is over, ours just beginning. We no longer can claim any moral superiority over this butcher - we have tortured people in the same prisons he did and murdered innocent Shiites just like he did, we invaded another country that was no threat to us just like Saddam did, we declare martial law, outlaw political parties, shutdown newspapers, restrict free spech, just like he did. We have become a pariah in this world as a result, just like he was. I see nothing but national shame coming out of the Iraq War. I see no difference between Saddam Hussein and George Bush. They both wage unnecesary war, and they are both blood soaked butchers, and they both are on their way to hell as they both claim justification from God.


Here's what I said: What does it say of a person's judgement that he sees no difference between an elected, term-limited leader of a democratic country and a self-appointed (oh wait, 99% of Iraq voted for Saddam, I forgot!), mass-murdering, expansionist dictator who threw political opponents into acid vats and limb chippers.

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He said what he said. I pointed it out. Okay, explain the insult.

Anybody?

The insult occurs when you personalize it, as in "What does it say about a person's judgment. . . ." turning the discussion from the issue at hand to a pejorative comment about the person.

Joe B.

Now that's just silly. Personalizing alone is not an insult, else personalizing a compliment would be an insult.

It must be something that I said, not that I personalized it. So, what did I say that was insulting? Did I call him a NAZI or a member of the SS?

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Of course you see it that way. If you believe yourself beyond reproach, you could not see it any other way.

As far as your counter argument to Kirk goes, by the way, G. W. Bush is a duly elected leader of a democratic nation, all right; the only problem is that the nation that elected him is not Iraq.

Joe B.

I read what he said and what you said and actually thought about it for a few before chiming in. Sure you're not directly insulting KV but you're "waving your finger" in his direction. He talked about his op about Shrub and Sad, nothing else. You took it in another dir by saying "What does it say of a person's judgement" which is clearly not an op on Shrub/Sad but directed at KV's inteligence. OK, you didn't call him Nazi, commie or whatever but insinuated that he must be an arse, idiot... pick your own word.

Bot, I am sure that you understand the difference between an insult and a complement. Don't you????


Why are we even discussing behavioral issues? Aren't most here adult? This kind of talk doesn't expand anyone's horizons...

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